User talk:GTAFAN 310
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Hi, welcome to Grand Theft Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the User:GTAFAN 310 page.
Hi. Can you try not to constantly undo someone's edit over and over again? Reverting someone's edit three times in a short period of time is considered edit warring. It's useless and a waste of time to do that. Discuss the situation in the "Discussions" section of the page instead. You could just ask the mods to deal with this situation.--spaceeinstein 15:35, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Stop messing with the Heroin page. I wrote that entire page and you are just making it wrong. Leave It. Also Departure Time and Endings in GTA IV.
there is no proof to say Departure Time and Out of Commission happen at the same time that is wrong this was never confirmed.
I told u, there is the explosion in the revenge ending, and the fact that Timur says Dimitri has died. Why would Luis only go to funland after Pegorino was killed, he goes there immediatley after Dimitri dies, either on happiness island, making it the final thing in the GTA IV era, or on the Platypus making it parrallel to Out of Commission. So stop messing it up.
then departure time would happen after "A Dish Served Cold" not during Out of Commission and like i said there is no proof to say this is bulgarin's jet.
No Luis goes to funland after Dimitri is killed. If he dies on happiness Island, then Bulgarin already has the heroin because Dimitri stole it at the deal. If he dies on the platypus, the Bulgarin gets it off the ship after Niko leaves after killing Dimitri. So in the revenge ending, Departure time would happen, but Niko would at the same time kill Pegorino on happiness island.
what about roman's wedding? which happens a day after a dish served cold? deaprture time would logically have to happen a day before roman's wedding if he got the heroin right after dimitri was killed on the ship and in gta iv endings it can't say more evidence points to revenge thats a little unfair it should say evidence points to both
Please stop undoing his edits. It's counterproductive and a waste of time for everyone. He'll undo yours anyway and the cycle will repeat endlessly. Do you want that to happen? Just leave it be and discuss the problems in the "Discussions" section of the related page.--spaceeinstein 16:50, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
at least be consistant with the story everything that was said was never confirmed i discuss the problem but nothing is getting fixed i have no problem constantly doing this...BE CONSISTANT TO THE STORY and i will stop
- Don't take edits on a wiki personally. A constant war is bad for the site and can get both of you banned. You have to know that there are people out there who can't have their minds changed no matter what you throw at them. Know when to stop and let the people with power deal with it.--spaceeinstein 17:02, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
This is how it goes in "Revenge": Day1: Dimitri killed on ship Day 2:Romans Wedding and Bulgaring and Timur get the heroin off the ship and take it to funland. Day 3: Niko kills Pegorino after finding him and Luis kills Bulgarin and destroys the heroin. See, on the same day.
i dont remember seeing this or mentioned in the game at all why wouldn't "departure time" just take place after a dish served cold did rockstar say out of commission and departure time happen at the same time... NO! did the game reveal the happen at the same time?... NO! and ray bulgarin's jet should be in the myth section why is it mentioned in the heroin section? and why does endings in gta 4 say more evidence ppoints to revenge? I WILL NOT ALLOW THAT THERE what if there are players who choose deal thats not fair to them
Its common sense that that is the way it goes, how else would the heroin be at funland if the player chooses revenge. And the evidence does point more toward revenge, there is no fair about it. It just seems as though Revenge is canon, the evidence supports it more. Bulgarins jet was in the myths but someone took it off. If Departure Time takes place after Niko's story, then why is there an explosion in the sky in the revenge ending, and not the deal ending? because Daparture time is parrallel to out of commision.
It was never confirmed that Departure time is after the GTA IV story, timur says that dimitri is dead, but if it were after the gta iv story, that would mean that the deal ending is canon, and since either are canon, thats why it is parrallel in revenge.
truth is we don't know when departure time takes place in revenge it should say that and evidence doesn't support either ending being canon there really shouldn't be a which ending was canon page and if departure time being the final thing to happen know matter what doesn;t mean deal was canon because really no matter what anybody says there is no correct ending and we don't know if that is bulgarin's jet this was NEVER confirmed
Fine, we will settle on that, it is unknown where Departure Time would fit in the the Revenge ending.
cool glad we have come to an agreement...i don't know about you but my fingers hurt...good fight
This was not a fight, but an argument. Also, could you two please sign your comments at the end with four tidles (~~~~). It makes them easier to read. Anyways, glad things are sorted out now. Also, can you both make sure you don't swear or flame each other in arguments. Thanks. Chimpso (Talk) 05:16, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
Editing Misions in GTA IV era
why do u keep editing that, we agreed that it was uncertain when Departure Time happened in the story. I have noted that it is uncertain so why do u keep changing it to show Departure Time the last thing to happen. NT92.
oh sorry about that i will change it hold on
You dont have to keep reverting this, no offence but what u write sounds like a 5 year old wrote it, spelling mistakes, punctuation errors. What is wrote there is what we agreed, so u have no reason to edit it, because all u are doing is writing the same stuff poorly.
you are saying departure time and out of commission happen at the same time i said it is uncertain...and don't judge my spelling when u can't put ing after write
I said it was uncertain too, they are roughly around the same time. i didn't mean to put ing on the end of write then. U cant spell, and u know no punctuation, and stop reverting the Endings in GTA IV page because packie leaving could also be connected to Revenge as well as deal.
i can't spell? u can't even put an ' between the n and t in can't so don't tell me i can't spell and don't put departure time and out of commission side by side if it is uncertain and you keep deleting roman's text messages in endings in gta iv that counts as proof to support deal so i deleted your thing with packie leaving the city being connected to kates death which it was not packie talks about leaving the city even before the ending of gta 4 on friend activity's so kates death being the reason is unlikely. leave my thing with roman's texts and i'll leave the thing with kate's death making packie leave the city. This is a talk page, im not thinking about spelling, u cant spell on the actual pages. Those text messages from Roman is rubbish, how does that support the deal tell me? Kate dying could drive him away so stop bargaining "you leave mine i leave yours", urs is hardly anything to support the deal, wheras i am just saying that Kates death is a good reason for Packie to get out as soon as.
We are just going to get done for edit warring again if we carry on, so just leave it, because the texts dont exactly support deal and i have already put that its uncertain where departure time would be.
why don't we just get rid of the Canon ending of GTA IV page save us both the trouble there is no canon ending so that really shouldn't be there and roman's texts says alot actually but i am going to delete the canon ending to gta 4 page.
Dont just delete it, it is speculation of the evidence, and Romans text say nothing, explain how they are any kind of support for the deal, what i have written is support for the revenge and deal, those calls for example where Niko feels better about himself. U have no right to just delete it.
listen it's best for us both that it just gets removed if we keep it there we will just keep edit warring forever do you want that? endings in gta 4 talks about the outcome of each ending not which was canon the texts do prove deal why doesn't kate send niko anyhting? but anyway it's best that it just gets removed either that or were going to be edit warring forever cause im not backing down anytime soon.
We wont get done if u just leave it, so leave it, its not ur decision to delete it, if one of the administrators says it should be deleted, then fine. The texts prove nothing.
the texts prove the game was pushing the player to do deal no one wants to admit it...but im pretty new so i don't know how to just call an administrator.
The texts are just to show Roman's character as being obsessed with money, and it is trying to get the player to think carefully like should Niko go with the girl who he loves and not go back on his own principles, or go with his cousin, and get the money that could really help them out. It does not push you to the deal, it just tries to get you thinking about the choice, Revenge goes with Niko's morals, But there is loads of Money in the Deal. (U get the same money for Revenge anyway, did u think of that).
it goes with niko's morals? i thought he wanted to stop killing people, listen to the conversation niko and roman have in "That special someone" and understand why deal has alot more of niko's morals aswell and the money niko gets in the revenge ending is a game element not a story element...rockstar did that so the player wouldn't feel cheated but in the story niko gets no money.
It goes with his morals because there is no way Niko would trust Dimitri again, not for all the money in the world, as Kate tells him, he doesn't need it to be happy. He has promised Niko throughout the game that Dimitri will be repayed with a bullet in the head. He kidnapped Roman, but Niko is not like Roman, he wouldn't give up his pride for money, Phil Bell even tells Niko he made the right choice in taking revenge.
but deal explains niko's main reason on why he came to liberty city deal tells the story of that of a guy who tried and failed to find redemption but revenge tells that of a guy who didn't want to be redemed in the first place niko changes in deal he for once turns away from killing someone he hated he wanted to change more than wanted to kill for once follow his cousins wishes and if dimitri tried to pull any sh*t niko would be ready. niko has humanity he's not always hell bent on killing people. And besides niko kills dimitri either way so that oath to kill dimitri was not betrayed. and phil doesn't say niko made the right decision he said he understood why
Anyway, none of that matters that is just your preference. If Niko was so bothered about killing people he wouldn't follow Dimitri to kill him in revenge. Niko is a person who holds grudges, he takes revenge, he trusts only once, and would never trust Dimitri again. I also think that Niko would let Darko live, he held a grudge for 10 years and listened to Roman by letting Darko go. With Dimitri, a rat who would sell everyone out, he would not go back on his promise to kill Dimitri first chance he gets after letting Darko live despite following him for 10 years. And you really better stop deleting that canon ending bit because it is not yours to delete, or your choice, it is an administrators, so just leave it there and if it is not deleted by an admin, then it is no problem, So Stop!
Niko can change he can let go of grudges...niko would let darko live i will agree with but i think the same would apply to dimitri. during the story call roman after completing some missions like "Pest Control" and it might help u understand why niko might just choose deal. And besides it's better to kill Dimitri at the end instead of Pegorino, we actually hear "It's Over" in deal in revenge we hear "I Don't Know" that says quite alot. but whatever even if the canon ending bit stays there we should atleast have this one piece of evidence that points to revenge and one piece of evidence that points to deal.
He would not let Dimitri live after letting go of things with Darko. "It's Over" and "I don't know" doesn't really say much. I do believe that if Rockstar decided for a canon ending which they won't, it would be revenge, no question.
with a heavy heart niko would let it pass...Deal is clearly the ending to get u can tell by comparing the final missions, in deal it's always stormy and rainy in revenge it's just a sunny day the final mission in deal is alot longer and better strunctured. The heli/heli chase in deal lasted for about 10 min. yet the boat/heli chase in revenge lasted for like 10 sec. rockstar would never say the revenge ending is canon.. revenge wraps up the commission arc and the relationship with kate niether played that big of a role in the story. In deal it wraps up the russian mob arc and the relationship with roman a story that we knew of SINCE THE BEGINNING! and i know everyone picked revenge. But i follow one very important saying, what the player wants and what makes a story good are 2 different things.
It is the same length lets jus clear that up, it is stuctured exactly the same, except Niko uses a bike in revenge and a boat in deal. Rockstar would probably go with revenge if they said which was canon. Revenge wraps up the russians cause Niko kills Dimitri! The better story follows revenge, because it it what Niko would do, He wants to be with Kate and promises that killing Dimitri will be the end, no more fighting, only he is forced to do it again when Kate is killed.
yeah he would go for the no more fighting...than he wouldn't kill dimitri on the ship he knows roman alot more than kate she was just some girl i think he would follow roman rather than kate, and remember rockstar MADE both endings so put yourself in their shoes if they were going to decide a canon ending why would it be revenge? why not deal? deal holds much more true to the story. Killing Dimitri at the end, dramatic, climax, and above all else GREAT STORY TELLING! Revenge lacks drama not to much climax and u go after some italian you only met a few seconds ago to avenge the death of some girl you barely knew in the first place...hmmm yes rockstar would deffinitly choose that ending.
It would be revenge because that is what niko would choose. The character we have bben playing would choose revenge after all that, so he could cut his ties with dimitri and live peacfully with kate without having to worry about dimitri. And Kate is a lot more than "just some girl" to Niko. He loves her, she finally accepts him as long as he is able to leave his criminal life. You have no sense of story. The girl always comes before family, if ur family didn't like ur girlfriend would u dump her? I hope not. Revenge is just as epic as Deal, it doesn't lack drama, Niko has just seen the girl he loves die, and to make it worse i was a nobody who killed her. So yes i think Rockstar would choose Revenge. Killing Dimitri earlier shows he is not what he though he was, he is just a pathetic rat who thought he could do everything, and Niko got rid of him. This is not a movie, it is a game that doesn't follow cliches, Pegorino, the nobody who Niko made the mistake of getting involved with.
I have no sense of story? You don't even know that Kate is Niko's friend NOT girlfriend. Bros before Hoes, Niko would follow his cousin rather than Kate. It's more than a video game it's a great story and deserves a good ending. Dimitri was the main antagonist of this game to kill him at the very end below the Statue of Happiness is how this story should end. I like Pegorino and all but he can't live up to Dimitri...and Roman holds more importance than Kate wouldn't you think? So it's better to avenge his death rather than Kate's. Not too many player's cared about Kate which makes it harder to understand why Niko would want to avenge her, and it doesn't give the player much motive to go after Pegorino. With Roman it's different it makes PERFECT sense to the player why he would want to avenge him, and it also gives the player more motive to go after Dimitri simply because how much roman meant to Niko and the player (Who didn't like Roman?) Roman's death adds PERFECT to niko's character development as he has paid for his actions thru the death of his cousin.
Kate agrees to take a chance on Niko at the end, when he promises to give up his criminal life. Are u so stupid u do not realize the game sets up Kate as Niko's love interest. Niko would not follow Roman. All he has done for the whole game is kill and steal for money for him and Roman. Niko wanted to end it all, and he thought that revenge would do, and allow him to live properly with Kate. Revenge shows Dimitri is nothing more than a rat, and also shows Pegorino was a nothing. "A Fat F***ing Joke". Roman is Niko's cousin, of course he holds great importance. I dont mean that Kate is more important, but Niko would never have predicted that Roman would die or kate, as he thought revenge would end it all, which is what he wanted. Roman isn't too upset with Revenge, he marries Mallorie happily, but Kate is appauled in the deal choice. Canonically, Niko and Kate would go out and reveal how much they care about each other, and like i said, this isn't a cliche game. The perfect ending doesn't mean anything, the revenge ending is much better because it isn't a cliche. I cant believe u even said "Bros Before Hoes". Niko as a person isn't like that. Luis Lopez is.
I Meant the Bros before Hoes thing as a joke chill. But Kate doesn't even know what "Not working with Dimitri" means. If she knew he would kill him instead she would want him to do the deal so her opinion is kinda moot. And you said kate is appauled by deal but that proves nothing if roman's texts don't prove anything then that certintly doesn't. Pegorino learns what a rat Dimitri is thru betrayl And Dimitri had everything he needed, THE DEAL but he couldn't let the bellic cousins go he just had to go back and paid for it. Niko learns that money isn't everything and the american dream is a lie. Thats why he said his most famous line to Dimitri "Welcome to America!" and "So this is what the dream feels like" And u only get to know Kate THRU DATES! while u Know Roman thru story.
If kate knew the predicament niko was in: Leave dimitri and live with her, but fear of dimitri retaliating, Kate would know what niko had to do. She wouldn't tell him to do the deal ever, even if she knew the alternative was killing dimitri, because it is trusting someone he said he would never trust again. Dimirti couldn't let the bellics go! wtf dimitri was scared shitless of Niko. The texts dont prove anything, neither do phone calls but Niko feels better about himself after revenge than he does in deal, he tells roman he thinks he made the right choice. Niko believed that revenge would end it, so that is what he would take. He only says welcome to america which is a mint line i gotta say, but its because both of them are foreign, and Nikos just saying that in reference to the corruption of their society. So what u only meet kate through dates. All friends activities and dates with everyone are canon to Niko's time in the city. So that is irrelavant.
Niko doesn't even trust Dimitri when he does the deal but money is more important than holding grudges. Niko makes peace with himself in the deal ending by rufusing to kill someone and changing realizing revenge will not shut the book HE SAYS IT HIMSELF! and kate would want niko to kill Dimitri? PROBABLY NOT! she complains all the time about niko killing people so i think that is unlikely. In Deal Niko says nothing more after Jacob takes him away because there is nothing more to say IT'S OVER thats why. in Revenge niko gives us some statement of values about the decison the plyer has made. Like "Really?..I Don't Know..what did i do?". The game is sorta asking the player "what did u do?" to me it's the choices that are merciful/Non-violent were probably meant to be the correct ones. As roman says "Maybe there is another path to take...A Less violent one" the deal ending shouldn't be called the deal ending it should be called the Anti-Revenge path because thats exacly what it is letting go of revenge and realizing it's not the anwser and a waste of time for everyone. deal shows niko is able to LET GO of past events and move on and for once grow-up.
I never said kate would want to kill dimitri, she just says dont do the deal, but that doesn't mean she would want him to deal if she knew he would go and kill dimitri otherwise. Niko asks what did i do because it just dawned on him that he has ended it, Roman says it's over, and they can finally start making money, the reason Roman asked niko to the city, and Niko agrees. Letting Darko live was Niko letting go of the past. Dimitri is not niko's past, he is just a rat who doesn't deserve to live. U think Niko would forget about Dimitri, if he was so well up on letting go of the past after Roman's death, he would not kill dimitri to avenge Roman, because Roman would'nt want him too. But that is the character Rockstar created, a man who because of his past held grudges. When they made the deal ending, they never meant it for Niko to be letting go of his past, that choice is with Darko. Deal wouldn't offer Niko the closure he wanted, but he thought revenge would. The deal ending is just testing the player, would Niko give up his dignity and pride just for money which he doesn't need to live happily, or get rid of a rat that would continue to make his life a misery unless dealt with. Niko would let darko live, and take revenge on dimitri.
Actually revenge tests the player will you let revenge take u over? or learn to let go of the past? dimitri is also part of niko's past and present but still the past thru the whole game most of niko's ally's tell him that there's no time for revenge and it won't help thru THE WHOLE GAME THIS WAS BROUGHT UP the choice was to test the player have u paid attention to the story and choose to put dimitri behind u by doing one last thing? or ignore that and choose the violent path, and notice america had no effect on u (it couln't change u) it couldn't rid ur desire for revenge all the time...it was a test that explains roman's texts.
Deal isn't letting go of the past, it is the greed for money, the saying money changes people. Niko isnt the one to be lured in by the thrill of money. He will do anything for money but when it comes to personal issues, he wouldn't go back on his principles. Niko would not let go of Dimitri, he would take his well deserved revenge, instead of being greedy and going for money, Deal shows that because u were greedy, Roman dies, and revenge shows that because u hold grudges, Kate dies. Dimitri someone who betrayed him, kidnapped roman and sold him out to bulgarin. Same as luis kills bulgarin for revenge, niko kills dimitri for revenge, and Niko is a lot colder than Luis is. I know the story inside out, which is why i know that revenge is the canon ending, with or without Rockstars confirmation. I wont go putting this on the proper page, but i know that if Rockstar announced the canon ending, they would confirm that it is revenge.
The Deal ending is canon c'mon U KNOW IT Revenge is a greed for killing Deal i mean the anti-revenge path is choosing to not kill dimitri it doesn't take much to know deal is correct. Why do u seem so sure that they will confirm it as revenge? what if they confirm it as deal? the anti-revenge path was the true ending to GTA IV. Believe it or not my first choice was revenge...but i didn't understand the story at that time i was new at it but paying close attention to the story the anti-revenge path was the ending...rockstar pretty much already confirmed this by making the deal ending much more dramatic climatic/cinematic...and full of emotion it's darker and more sinister dimitri dies in the most satisfying why (bleeds to death on happiness island) think about why did rockstar make the deal ending much more emotional and deep? whats with romans texts? why is it always rainy and stormy? why is it longer? i know this isn't evidence but why would they spend more time making the anit-revenge path if it was not canon?
Yeah whatever ur wrong its revenge. Revenge is in no way greed, Niko was ridding himself of a rat so he could live peacefully with Kate, that is all he wanted. The deal is pure greed, Why doesn't kate appear after deal, she said she would be there for him and u dont hear from her again, she may as well be dead. and both endings have the same length of missions, same level of epicness but Revenge is what Niko would do, that says all that Revenge ending is canon. but anyway i am in england and it's late, will can carry on debating 2morrow.
Revenge is VERY GREEDY he refused to help out roman and think about himself and his issues with Dimitri not looking after roman or mallorie revenge is the selfish path...deal is quite obviously canon. So killing someone on a ship and choosing to think about ur self instead of helping ur cousin is in no way greed? revenge is ALWAYS greedy no matter what anyone says. Both money and revenge are greedy...but letting revenge take u over is MUCH worse than letting money take u over. Niko wants to CHANGE he's not always wanting to kill people Dimitri was not worth his time. DEAL WAS CANON!!!
Deal is the only greedy path because of the money. If Niko lets Darko live, which is also something we both agree he would do, that is Niko letting go of his past, and taking Roman's advice. Taking revenge doesn't mean Niko isn't looking after Roman, if anything he is protecting him by getting rid of Dimitri once and for all. Niko and Roman had enough money to live happily and in Revenge Roman knows that. He is not thinking of just himself, Niko is thinking: "I will kill this rat and end this for myself, then be with Kate and Roman and I can finally live in peace and make money ourselves." They are Niko's intentions. And yes Niko wants to change, he is willing to give it all up for Kate, who he would rather be with compared to bagging a load of money for Roman, because they can be happy without it. He cares for both of them equally, but because Roman is his cousin, who will always be at his side no matter what, he wanted to prove to Kate he could change and put his criminal life behind him, but before he could do that, Dimitri needed to be out of the picture, because as long as Dimitri was still on his case, there would be no escape. Doing a heroin deal is not putting his criminal life in the past, it is going back on his own principles, and throwing everything away for money he doesn't need or particularly want, it's drug money. U gotta remember that Niko thought that by killing Dimitri on the ship that would be the end, no more killing, Revenge wasn't taking him over, because the whole point of Revenge is that it is the final straw, the last step he must take to live normally, with his cousin making legit money, and with Kate. He says to Roman It ended where it began, and says to Kate it's over, and he feels better in himself.
he would deffinitly let darko go yes but he would also let dimitri go because he was not worth his trouble, niko lets go of quite alot in deal HE CHANGES america has changed his thought about revenge all the time like dimitri i think said "america has calmed u down" it's more than doing a heroin deal it's about not letting revenge control u anymore. But i think he cared more about roman because his reaction to his death was alot more intense than his reaction to kates. revenge can't really be the final straw it certintly wasn't in this case kate got killed he had to kill pegorino, that doesn't seem like the final straw why else do u think niko says "I Don't Know" niko doesn't make money in the revenge path, in the revenge ending pegorino shouts stuff like "How are you going to get by in this country if u ain't gonna go after the big money" Dimitri is put out the picture anyway he is killed and beaten no matter what. And niko doesn't really feel better about himself look at the look on his face after he shoots pegorino in the final cutscene he doesn't look anybetter the look on his face says it all. Since the beginning of the game it's been money. money, money Niko and Roman need to survive and kate doesn't really understand the situation niko and roman become rich but niko pays for his criminal life thru the death of his only family in liberty now all he has to do is one more thing...end things with rascalov and avenge your cousin.
Look, just read again what i put before properly and u will understand why Niko would choose revenge. Dimitri was well worth the trouble because he needed to get rid of him if he had Roman were to live peacefully, Roman with Mallorie, Niko with Kate. It is not letting revenge control him because it was Niko's last job so he could be with Kate, Niko THOUGHT it was the final straw. Niko does feel better, he and Roman know money isn't a priority as they are very capable to live normally and legitamately. Dimitri is killed either way, but storywise, Niko would get rid of him on the boat so as to prevent further incidents. When Niko discovers where Dimitri is, he realizes that he could just finish it, he wouldn't do a deal with a traitor when he could just finish it, and be with Kate, that is what Niko thinks will happen. Niko isn't obsessed with money, get this into ur head, he would end things with rascalov first chance he got, Roman wouldn't think of him any differently, he realizes Niko did what he had to do, and finally, say its over so they can start making money themselves. No matter what u say, I can just justify revenge better than u can justify deal.
Pay attention to the story CALL ROMAN after completing some missions and it may help u understand why deal was what he would have gone for and you can justify revenge better? HAHAH i think it's the other way around bro. If he can let darko live he could let Dimitri. And Niko wasn't obsessed with money? Sure that's why he goes around killing people for A holes...he doesn't care about money at all does he? NIKO ONLY SAYS "IT'S OVER' in deal. He says instead in revenge "I DON'T KNOW"! how can anyone miss what rockstar was saying here? Niko doesn't want to kill people it's good that he would decide to put dimitri's betrayls behind him and move on by getting money to help his cousin he hated dimitri BUT he loved roman enough to do the deal. I can back up the anti-revenge path alot more than you can back up the violent one. REVENGE DID NOTHING for niko he just got deeper in his criminal life NOT OUT OF IT! in the anti-revenge path he leaves his criminal life in the revenge path he embraces it...how is killing dimitri on that ship leaving his criminal life behind? Surely he knew the pegorino's wouldn't be happy about this he even says to kate on the way to the wedding that he wants to leave his criminal life behind, he never said he already has.
You two can argue and speculate as much as you want. There is no confirmed canon ending. Until Rockstar confirms it, no matter haw many "clues" you have, we cannot say either one is canon. So stop wasting time with this argument. Chimpso (Talk) 06:49, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
I Agree there can't be a correct ending since if there was why are there 2? but i was just doing that because HE said that there was a canon ending...so i'm like "Two can play at that game" so yeah.
I do pay attention to the story, calling Roman after missions just has Niko telling him what he's been up to. U are basically saying Rockstar intended for Deal to be canon, because its apparently longer and better told. ITS THE SAME LENGTH, THE STORY IS JUST AS GOOD EITHER WAY. Both endings are good, but Niko would've took revenge, that is what im saying. Your reasons for supporting deal or pretty weak compared to mine for revenge. Everything i say for revenge fits Niko and the story we have played so far, including the dialogues between the characters, all friend activities and girlfriend dates, which are canon to Niko's time in the city. How many times do i have to say this, he didn't need the money to live the life he wanted. Niko wanted Kate, he didn't want money, it isn't like Roman would hate Niko forever because of the deal, he doesn't mind, he is happy Niko ended it after killing Dimitri in revenge, and is why he says that its over and they can start making money. Killing Dimitri on the ship is exactly Niko leaving his criminal life behind, because for Niko, he believed that after doing that, he would be able to live in peace with Kate, who he wanted to be with, and knew Kate would not respect him for doing the deal. Deal is the definition of being a criminal: Agreeing to sell heroin for dirty money for a mafia family, and providing the russians with heroin. Niko wanted out, and thought revenge would be the final fight. Niko never anticipated an attack from Pegorino, he thought they were ruined, Phil Bell calls him before the wedding to say the family are truly ruined, and Phil leaves them. This is why revenge is the more realistic choice and what Niko would make. If it was a film, Deal would be the alternate ending that the test audiences didn't like. And Revenge would be the true ending.
Have u heard nothing at the bottom? You are only wasting your time...First thing first how is deal being a criminal? and revenge not? if he didn't need the money than WHY DOES HE KILL PEOPLE FOR THESE GUYS. How is revenge realistic? you just said and i quote "ITS THE SAME LENGTH, THE STORY IS JUST AS GOOD EITHER WAY" so how can one ending be more realistic than the other? niko wanted out yes but killing dimitri on that ship isn't what i would call "getting out" just getting deeper in. I Hope you realize that the dudes at the bottum are right, HOW CAN THERE BE A CANON ENDING IF THERE ARE 2 ENDINGS! think on that one. If R* would go and make 2 endings and they new only 1 of them would be canon than what's the point of the other ending? To test the audience? PLEEZE! what a waste that would be. I Have already addressed my point on why deal was better than revenge from a storytelling point of view...but u don't seem to understand. Atleast i understand that there is no canon ending. Bro u need to grow up.
Unrealistic (Deal) does not mean it's bad. But GTA IV is realistic and revenge is just the more realistic choice, and it is what Niko would choose. Both are canon, it's the player's choice, but revenge follows the story better. Revenge is not getting deeper in because it was supposed to be the last time he held a gun. He was going to forget the life after that. Bro?? u have been ranting on the same as me so u also need to grow up. U were saying that deal was canon before, i said revenge is canon becuase that is the game i play and to me it is. He would not do the deal for all the reasons i have said. He would'nt do the deal, and your reasons for deal are very weak. I just much prefer the more realistic ending to a realistic game, with a realistic character. Either way, your weak deal reasons are not going to convince me otherwise, and my obviously superior revenge support reasons will not convince u either. I will just say now, if u want to be the big man, just don't reply to this and it will be over.
My weak deal reasons? sure if it's so weak why do u respond? i think u are just bothered cause my reasons are stronger than yours. when i said u need to grow up i meant u don't realize niether is canon did u read what i said at the bottum? I think i am the bigger man because i understand there is no canon ending. the endings are exacly the same eitheer roman or kate dies niko gets 250,000 $ anyway and dimitri and the peg die...THAT'S IT! but again logically niko would go for Deal if anything He says he does not want to deal with death anymore...killing dimitri on that ship? seems like dealing with death to me. How can one ending be more "realistic" than the other? if they are almost the same? acuse me for not wanting the violent road and perfering not to kill people. But revenge isn't getting out how is it? are u saying revenge is the anwser for everyone than? THAT'S SICK! Reasons why deal is better:
1. It sums up the entire story of GTA IV while revenge sums up just the commission story.
2. You go after Dimitri...he's the final boss and killled at the end. Better than killing some italian at the end.
3. Kate is not as easy to care about than roman so her death and final mission is pointless.
Go on Deconstructoid/GTA IV endings.com they can explain better than i ever could why deal was superior. CHECK IT OUT!
They are very weak reasons u give. I just respond to show u how better my reasons for revenge are. Don't get annoyed about it. Revenge is more realisic because it would be Niko's choice logically. Revenge wraps up Niko's intentions for getting out of crime, because he thought he would be free after killing Dimitri. I fully understand that both are canon it is up to the player, but if there was a canon ending it would be revenge, obviously. Just because u as a player doesn't care about Kate, I dont either, but storywise, including her dates which are canon, Niko does, they both want to be with each other. Btw, that destructoid rubbish, is, well a load of rubbish. In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if u wrote it. Actually, reading further, i noticed that u have just been copying this crap the whole time, so they are not only really weak reasons, they're not even yours! HAHA LOL U ARE AN EPIC FAIL.
LOL U ONLY THINK IT'S RUBBISH cause THE TRUTH HURTS if it said revenge was better U WOULD NEVER SAY IT WAS RUBBISH! THEY ARE IN FACT MY REASONS! Like i said I agree with that artical how is that a fail? U fail even more so cause u don't even know what a FAIL IS! Revenge wraps up Niko's intesions to get out of his criminal life? I Don't see it but DEAL WRAPS UP HIS ENTIRE STORY! How is that a weak reason? U only say they are weak cause it's not what u think u only say that artical was rubbish CAUSE IT'S NOT WHAT U WANNA HERE! Don't say i fail until u know what it even means! That is the true Fail! My opinion is shared with that artical I 100% Agree with it. U don't even know what fail is OWNED!
I've got an idea, why don't u go and think of something to say that u thought of yourself, LOL!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH! U FAIL!! U FAIL!!! Oh, by the way, Niko would not do a deal with someone who betrayed him. U FAIL!! U FAIL!!
LOL! are u kidding is that the BEST u can do? first off i share the same opinion as that artical I in fact thought of that stuff perfectly for myself. U don't understand the story alot pay very very close attention to Niko and Roman's Conversation in that special someone and atleast try to understand. U say i fail and laugh like a little Child..I fail? sure yet at the same time u can't even act your own age (If your not 5) in these Debates TRY to be mature. LOL YOU ARE THE FAILFAILFAILFAILFAILFAIL not me oh BTW Niko cares more for roman and helping him out than killing Dimitri U FAIL!
I know the story better than u. How can u go on about writing fail and laughing u are doing it too u complete and utter moron. So again...U FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did u find this on Destructoid as well? Niko would take revenge just face it. Bro.
Yes im the complete and utter moron yet U can't even get the timeline right... i know the story better than u ever will. You even said I failed not too long after i said it first on the other dabate..U STOLE THAT FROM ME! YOU are the one to face the facts Deal was better COMPARE THE MISSIONS too each other and answer these questions if deal is not canon.
1. Why is it dark, stormy and rainy in deal BUT NOT revenge? hmmm
2. Why is niko more affected by Roman's death than Kate's? hmmm
3. Why is the final cutscene in deal much much more darker and sinsister than the one in revenge? hmmm
4. why does roman send niko those texts? hmmm
5. Why is it that in revenge niko has an unsatisfying look on his face? (check it out for yourself)
6. Why is it that in deal Niko Jacob tells niko "IT'S OVER"and niko says nothing afterwords, yet in revenge when roman says we won Niko responds with "I DON'T KNOW"!
7. Why is the final mission in deal more climax (cause u can tell it is) That heli/heli crash on the island was WAY more better than the Heli/boat crash
8. Niko chases Dimitri all over happiness island while he only needed to chase pegorino for 5 min.
9. Why does since the beginning of the game everyone tells niko that revenge is not what he is after. (listen to roman and niko's conversation in that special someone)
10 WHY DID R* PUT MORE TIME IN DEAL IF REVENGE WAS CANON? HMMMMMMM
I said FAIL! as i was just messing because u kept saying it. There is not more effort or time into deal than revenge, that is all in your head. They are equal on that front. Just that revenge is a more realistic outcome. Why do u keep saying "hmmmmmm HMMMMM" u make me think of u as a queer who wont get out of your face.
1: The weather doesn't mean s***, it wasn't raining when i played it so don't make crap up. 2: Niko is affected by the deaths equally. 3: The final cutscene is not any more sinister or dark, just Dimitri is there instead of Peg, and a bit of different dialogue. 4: Stop going on about the texts, it is just the way Roman is. Instead, ask yourself why Niko tells Roman he feels he made the right choice in revenge. 5: In revenge Niko has an unsatisfying look? Oh yeah i forgot he was really happy and throwing a party in deal after Roman died. 6: He says "I dont know" because he though it would have finished on the boat, yet he ends up having to kill Pegorino. 7: The climax is good equally. And in revenge Niko makes a jump from a bike, which looks 10x better anyway. The boat/heli crash is not a reason for more time into deal, do u really think they would favour one ending over another? 8: I killed Dimitri on hapiness island in 30 secs just headshoot him his armour is gone in no time. 9: Everyone does say no revenge, and he gives it up by letting Darko go which he would have done, but he needed Dimitri gone if he wanted to be with Kate. Listen to Niko and Kate's conversations. 10: They didn't.
You didn't answer my questions the right way btw hmmmmm stands for waiting for an answer everyone knows that. They obviously put more time in deal IT WAS WAYYYY LONGER weather stands for drama and it was raining in deal not in revenge. I don't know why yours was the only one that didn't cause the only way to get rid of the rain in deal is weather cheats. Go play the endings again or u will never get it.
I played the endings, but both endings were treated fairly. I honestly can't remember the weather i will play it again. It wasn't longer, the car chase is the same, then the shootout at the casino, same and then a boat chase instead of bike chase. The chase to happiness island is no longer stop making that up. But it doesn't matter because revenge is the more logical option that Niko would take. End of.
Deal is the more "moral" ending it's crystal clear the chase is in fact longer in deal that doesn't mean it was not being fair it was just more developed. The weather is there...are u even playing it? I Don't know but it's rainy as hell in deal i will tell u that.
Rockstar did not intentionally make deal better. They are both developed equally. Deal is not moral because Niko's morals would not tell him to work with a previous traitor. Not even for Roman, Not for all the money in the world. He doesn't want it, he hates it and wants out, he and Roman know they can live just as well without it. He just wanted to kill Dimitri and get it all over with. He would do that for nobody else, BUT FOR HIMSELF, so he could be free and forget about everything after that, because with Kate he realised he could live normally. Kate told him he can still be a good person and in Deal it is not changing him, it is showing he is willing to give up his self respect for drug money, and work with a crook mafia family instead of kill Dimitri and finish it. Deal is not something Niko would fall for, especially with Dimitri.
He wouldn't do it for roman? HE DOES ALL THE WORK HE DOES TO HELP ROMAN! Revenge is the selfish path cause niko and rom needed $ and niko choosing to kill dimitri was just about him and didn't care about helping his cousin you said that yourself. Roman shows niko revenge is waste of his time and isn't going to make him feel anybetter about himself Niko knew Killing Dimitri wasn't going to change much he is in his criminal life anyway either way HE NEVER GETS OUT but atleast in deal he tried to get out by doing one last thing. Niko did want to kill Dimitri BUT remember what U. L. Paper told Niko about that "None of us want to kill them when we find them" Niko always goes on about "He needs to do what he can to survive" EVERYONE pretty much tells him that revenge isn't what he's after. Roman even says "Now that you know that revenge is not what you are after u can look for fullfilment in other places...healthy ones." Like i said Anti-Revenge represents Niko wanting redemption but failed to find it. Check the E-Mails U.L.Paper sends niko after killing or sparing darko, It may help understand.
BUT HE DOES FEEL BETTER ABOUT HIMSELF! He kills Dimitri and feels better because he thinks it's over. Roman and Niko don't need money. They have enough for the life they want. In Deal he is going into the shit again by chancing it when he could just END IT with revenge. Revenge usually does change nothing, but in this case, Dimitri would be constantly sending hitmen to kill him. Niko is completely against the deal, but his face lights up when Roman tells him Dimitri is on the Platypus, Niko says he could just go and kill him and end it there and then since now he knows where he is. He goes on about survival? Killing Dimitri ASAP is essential to his survival! UL Paper was refering to Florian or Darko when he said that none of us want to kill them. We already know that Niko would follow Roman with Darko. But he would follow himself with Dimitri, not Roman again. Dimitri was personal. Niko may want redemption, but what he wants more is to live in peace and with Kate he could do just that. Kate was everything Niko needed to help him move on and the last thing he would is knowingly lose her respect.
Niko feels no better about himself in revenge once again why does he say "I Don't Know" and lol it's over is only said in deal BUT NOT REVENGE! UL PAPER was referring to Dimitri as well when u think about. AND HE IS NOT WITH KATE how many time do i have to mention this Redemption is what niko wanted all along that was his main motive to coming to liberty to star fresh and leaving the past behind NOT TRYNG TO JUST FINISH IT AND JUST MAKE THINGS WORSE. The consequences niko is faced with in deal PROVE to be more moral. Roman i'm sure meant more to niko than kate, i'm sure with all the stuff he's been thru he could care less about loosing some girl's respect. He would ALWAYS follow his cousin his ONLY FAMILY IN LIBERTY! family always comes first, Niko is a family man u can tell. He would put roman above kate ANYDAY he really liked kate and all but roman should always come first.
U should listen to the phonecall after killing Dimitri on the boat, Niko says he feels better that its over, "it ended where it began". He is happy Kate is at the wedding, and is smiling and couldn't be happier because he is with Kate and everything is fine...until Pegorino gets there. He went to Liberty to live the dream with his cousin, but found it was a lie, not for redemption, and even if he did, in deal he isn't trying for it because he would be taking dirty drug money he doesn't want and losing his self respect. His intention of starting fresh was dead the second Niko got off the boat in Liberty. He met Kate and she said he was good enough to turn it around. She would be with him if he left the life. Killing Dimitri was Niko's attempt to get out, and be with Kate, she isn't "some girl", she is just as important to him as Roman, he loves both of them in different ways. He wouldn't ALWAYS follow his cousin, no way would he. Roman has been nothing but a burden to him and all Niko has done is help him out. Niko isn't a family man, he protects his family but isn't a family man. He would never put Roman above Kate they are of EQUAL importance. They would both come first. Kate probably before Roman if it had to be one before the other. Men put their women first. U are dumb if u think Niko is so heartless that he would ditch Kate to follow his cousins greed for money.
put there women first yes BUT KATE WASN'T NIKO'S WOMEN! since she was just a friend and roman was family HE CAME FIRST! Why would niko pick kate over Roman? that makes no sence at all. He doesn't ditch kate he doesn't follow her advise she doesn't even know the situation why would he? He would follow roman to help him with his marriage not throw it away for a grudge. And quit saying "Be with kate" she's not niko's women in many ways roman is way more important than her he's been there since scrath she pops up in the middle and u barely see her again...the only other time u really do socialize with her is thru dates. Protecting family is always being a family man. Greed for revenge and killing and wicked works are worse than Money, everyone should no that.
Oh wow, Seriously? The first thing I do is go to "My home" and I see this Bullcrap? Just seriously, you guys should just shut up about that crap. It's a game. No need to spam all of this. IanMontes 23:25, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
First of all, these edit wars you two are having, which involve hundreds of edits, are totally annaceptable. We have no proof weather deal or revenge are canon and you can't just abuse each other and start edit wars just because you think you are right. If this type of edit warring and flaming continues then a block may result. This is a final warning to both of you. If one more edit war ensues between you two then the staff will be forced to take action. You have been warned Chimpso (Talk) 07:24, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
we just want that part about the canon ending deleted it does nothing but cause trouble. and since neither ending is canon than it really shouldn't be there.
RE: Edit Warring
we are not warring anymore BUT could one of u administrators PLEASE get rid of that part were it talks about the canon ending...since there is no canon ending than it's pretty useless for that to be there wouldn't you guys think?