Talk:Banshee - Revision history

Spaceeinstein: /* Blue and White Banshee not found anywhere else? */

2010-08-02T07:36:10Z

Blue and White Banshee not found anywhere else?

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:36, 2 August 2010
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	After I finished bringing Brucie his Exotic Exports Banshee, I was driving around and found an exact copy of the Exotic Export and took it to my safehouse. Glitch/Bug? [[User:Kitanoguy222\|Kitanoguy222]] 06:06, August 2, 2010 (UTC)		After I finished bringing Brucie his Exotic Exports Banshee, I was driving around and found an exact copy of the Exotic Export and took it to my safehouse. Glitch/Bug? [[User:Kitanoguy222\|Kitanoguy222]] 06:06, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

			:Apparently there's a glitch that keeps Stevie's last requested car in the game. I didn't look into this glitch yet but I've read other people having this glitch happening.--'''[[User:Spaceeinstein\|spaceeinstein]]''' 07:36, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

gtw>Kitanoguy222 at 06:06, 2 August 2010

2010-08-02T06:06:05Z

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	== Verification, please ==		== Verification, please ==

	I need someone to verify the following statement I made in the article: "The '90s Viper RT/10 version is the only top-down convertible that the player cannot jump into without opening the driver door." I'm pretty sure of this, but I just wanted confirmation from others who know the game as well. Thanks! [[User:Eganio\|Eganio]] 19:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)		I need someone to verify the following statement I made in the article: "The '90s Viper RT/10 version is the only top-down convertible that the player cannot jump into without opening the driver door." I'm pretty sure of this, but I just wanted confirmation from others who know the game as well. Thanks! [[User:Eganio\|Eganio]] 19:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

	:You're right in the statement you made, when I played GTA SA and LCS when I got into a Banshee my character didn't hop through to get in.::[[User:Fast Lane\|Fast Lane]] 22:46, 25 October 2008 (UTC)		:You're right in the statement you made, when I played GTA SA and LCS when I got into a Banshee my character didn't hop through to get in.::[[User:Fast Lane\|Fast Lane]] 22:46, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
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	::Sorry, I didn't know that page. Maybe I will complete it soon...--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 18:45, October 14, 2009 (UTC)		::Sorry, I didn't know that page. Maybe I will complete it soon...--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 18:45, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

			== Blue and White Banshee not found anywhere else? ==

			After I finished bringing Brucie his Exotic Exports Banshee, I was driving around and found an exact copy of the Exotic Export and took it to my safehouse. Glitch/Bug? [[User:Kitanoguy222\|Kitanoguy222]] 06:06, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

gtw>Szebrine: /* Panoz Esperante? */

2010-07-02T16:27:03Z

Panoz Esperante?

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:27, 2 July 2010
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	::Sorry for you being more observant than you but the Esperante has elliptical headlights the Banshee does not, makes no sense, you might as well say they are from a Porsche 911.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 00:04, February 12, 2010 (UTC)		::Sorry for you being more observant than you but the Esperante has elliptical headlights the Banshee does not, makes no sense, you might as well say they are from a Porsche 911.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 00:04, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
			::
			::Thescarydude's correct here... the GTA IV Banshee headlamps are very similar to the 1997 Marcos [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marcos_Mantis.jpg Mantis]
			::In fact, the whole front end is pretty similar now that I look again... / [[User:Szebrine\|Szebrine]] 16:27, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

	== San Andreas Car Facts ==		== San Andreas Car Facts ==

Thescarydude: /* Panoz Esperante? */

2010-02-12T00:04:07Z

Panoz Esperante?

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:04, 12 February 2010
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	:The headlights look like an Esperante, you bunch of goofs.		:The headlights look like an Esperante, you bunch of goofs.

			::Sorry for you being more observant than you but the Esperante has elliptical headlights the Banshee does not, makes no sense, you might as well say they are from a Porsche 911.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 00:04, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

	== San Andreas Car Facts ==		== San Andreas Car Facts ==

gtw>Gorden Frohman: /* Panoz Esperante? */

2010-02-11T02:04:09Z

Panoz Esperante?

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:04, 11 February 2010
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	::GT or not,but has anyone noticed that one of the GTA IV Banshee paintjobs is light blue with orange stripe,similar to the Ford GT40 Racecar,which had similar paintjob,accompanied with the Gulf sponsors.		::GT or not,but has anyone noticed that one of the GTA IV Banshee paintjobs is light blue with orange stripe,similar to the Ford GT40 Racecar,which had similar paintjob,accompanied with the Gulf sponsors.

			:The headlights look like an Esperante, you bunch of goofs.

	== San Andreas Car Facts ==		== San Andreas Car Facts ==

Gboyers at 18:56, 14 October 2009

2009-10-14T18:56:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:56, 14 October 2009
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	==Image==		==Image==
			:''Discussion moved to [[Forum:Vehicle page images]]''

	Could someone please replace the first picture of the banshee with something little more appealing, such as the banshee from GTA IV, this is a featured page. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 01:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	:This is a problem with most vehicle articles as no one picture is better than the other. The best thing to do is to place all images in a gallery.--'''[[User:Spaceeinstein\|Spaceeinstein]]''' 04:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	::But there should always be one in the top right corner of the article (see [[Help:Articles]]). We just need to choose the best image for that position, taking in to account things like camera angle (best image, not best version of the car, though if it comes down to that than why not?). '''[[User:Biggest gta fan ever\|Biggest GTA Fan Ever]]<sup>''[[User talk:Biggest gta fan ever\|Talk]]''</sup>''' 06:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	:::This is the problem, especially for names shared by vehicles prior to GTA III ([[Fire Truck]], [[Stallion]], [[Bus]], [[Stinger]] and [[Speeder]]). Your argument basically tips in favor of vehicles from GTA III and later, since they are a far more detailed. We might as well avoid lead pictures outright in cases like this. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 08:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::Well, taking out the lead picture in a featured page is just a horrible idea in my opinion. While it is true putting pictures of vehicles that have the best looks is favoring GTA III and IV era, the top down pictures just look bad and you can barely make out what that vehicle is suppose to be. That is why we should have the more detailed pictures, because that is what the people come here to see, not just some image of a few pixels put together 10 years ago. Although I do agree those top down pictures should be put into the gallery, they should never be put into the top right corner unless that is the only picture of that vehicle([[Karma Bus]], [[Medicar]]). [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 13:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	:::::It's amazing how shallow modern gamers are. The only way that this can be solved easily is by putting the most recent rendition at the top, but then some cars such as the [[Admiral]] were also in GTA Chinatown wars, so the whole "next-gen graphics FTW" arguement would start again. However, I think it's only fair that the earlier renditions are featured too, so maybe it ''would'' be better to just put all the images in the gallery at the bottom (unless it's the only vehicle with its name, such as the [[Cossie]] or [[[Mundano]]). Either that, or we split the article into sections "GTA 1 Rendition", "GTA III Rendition" (much like most vehicle articles at the moment already ''are'') and feature the picture of the appropriate vehicle in each section. - [[User:Hardrock182\|Hardrock182]] 16:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::::I'm still not fond of splitting it up this way. I've been looking up [[Talk:Mesa]] and found a valid justification for merging all renditions if they share the same name, simply to ease maintenance in the long run. This is why I'm sticking to my guns. Of course, there will be a conflict of interest, but it's a small price to pay to better manage this wiki. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 16:27, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::::: Okay, I see your point about not splitting it up many different pages for each one, that isn't a good idea. But back to the original point, we shouldn't have an ancient picture for a car that has much better detail in a newer picture. Although I do agree GTA III era picture should be featured, '''on occasion'''. GTA III era pictures have dominated this wiki for over 4 years, I think it is time to give room for GTA IV pictures in the top right box, especially in featured pages. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 20:44, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	It was only last year that I [http://www.rockstargames.com/classics/ downloaded GTA1 and GTA2 from Rockstar's website]. The reason I downloaded them was because I wanted to see the evolution of the series and I admit that if I had more patience for the awkward controls and things they would have been good games, and therefore in their time, I believe that they ''were'' good games. However, it's no secret that MOST (I'm not saying all) of the people reading GTW are looking for information about the GTA III/IV eras. The image in the top-right corner of the page should (in my opinion) be the most appealing we have, that doesn't necessarily mean the version of the car that has the best performance, and it's personal preference to say which version of a car ''looks'' best (I know that I don't really care). What I mean by the best image could incorporate things like camera angle (which I mentioned before), time of day (can you see the features?), location (what's in the background), etc, to get the best looking image, and GTA1/2 cars are just simple drawings and don't seem to have that same affect (always day in GTA1 and night in GTA2, always just road and roof in background, etc). Thoughts? '''[[User:Biggest gta fan ever\|Biggest GTA Fan Ever]]<sup>''[[User talk:Biggest gta fan ever\|Talk]]''</sup>''' 05:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	:This is exactly the kind of argument has leaves me to think that the lead space should be left empty, to leave nothing for both the pre-GTA3-er and the post-GTA3-er; anyone with sense would naturally head down to the gallery section. It also works well to avoid that dreaded Wikia ad box that shows up on the upper right corner of the page when unregistered users visit this wiki. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 08:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	::Wait, is this whole section, '''image''', about the pre-GTA III era of the Banshee? Because if I read the article right it's introduced in GTA III, meaning there's no argument for putting a GTA/GTA2 car as the top-right-hand-image. And I think that the GTA III image is fine. -[[User:ScotlandTheBest\|ScotlandTheBest]] 08:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	:::It is relevant. I thought it would be appropriate to simply include the ''first'' iteration of the vehicle bearing the name, followed by the gallery of succeeding variants. But the way I see it, if the choice of lead image is determined by just graphics, we might as well forgo a lead image in articles of vehicle with multiple appearances, including the Banshee. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 09:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::Well, since the first images of a vehicle's appearance in GTA/GTA2 are small, why not have the first appearance (the small one) with a larger beneath? -[[User:ScotlandTheBest\|ScotlandTheBest]] 11:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	:::::Which is why I favour using only the gallery section to illustrate images in cases like this. I can't see a sound compromise in this matter if they still want a lead image. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 11:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::::Well I guess we will have to leave to creator of the page choose a lead image, and it can be replaced by the people of GTW if they feel if that picture is obsolete. Although there should still be a lead picture, I just think if we take it out it takes away from what a good wiki should be like. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 21:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

	~~----~~

	I disagree with a lot of this. Every page should have an image at the top. Looking at the [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=133304 current revision] of [[Police Car]], the article is boring and entirely text. As for which era should be at the top, just pick an image that best shows off what that vehicle is. Geeky arguments over which era is technically correct shouldn't ruin the experience of the wiki for most people. It's not as if someone would see a GTA IV Police Car and think "oh no that's the wrong page". If the vehicles are very different, then they should be on different pages (like [[Tug]] and [[Tug Boat]]). Please ensure every vehicle page has an image at the top. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	Also, looking at [[Banshee]] and [[Police Car]], you guys have put ALL the images into the gallery, leaving NONE to illustrate the page. This goes against the format of the wiki, leaving just text which is not pleasant to look at. Yes, if we have a lot of images, most of them should go in the gallery. A big gallery is a good thing - especially to compare the vehicles in different eras. But there's no harm in illustrating the rest of the article too. See how [[Liberty City in GTA IV Era]] is illustrated, do that wherever there is a large chunk of text. The image doesn't have to be relevant. It provides a point-of-reference for the eye which helps when reading large amounts of text or scrolling throught the page. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:35, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	:I agree with Gboyers about images on top of pages makes them much more appealing. But instead of having the first rendition's picture why not use the latest big console version, since more people are familiar with the newer games, especially considering how most of the info on the wiki is GTA IV-orientated.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 21:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	::Figured it's time to resolve this. I'm not ashamed to say that I have been endorsing this sort of edits for one simple reason: Unfair representation. Articles covering vehicles from nearly all GTA games, including the classical ones (i.e. [[Police Car]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=95065], [[Fire Truck]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fire_Truck&oldid=88666], [[Ambulance]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ambulance&oldid=88440], [[Stallion]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stallion&oldid=88872] and [[Stinger]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stinger&oldid=77582]), tend to use lead images from GTA III and later, implying constant bias towards the newer 3D games. I've always thought of including the earlier renditions as lead images, but the assumption is that, eventually, some post-GTA III fanboy is going to replace it with a newer rendition, reinforcing that bias again. By eliminating lead images, all renditions receive fair representation when they are all in the gallery. If you guys are so insistent of a lead image, I want assurance that at least some of these articles use a fair share of images from both the classical and 3D games as lead images, or have the gallery moved up the article instead of placing it so far below. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	I don't see why III/IV-era bias is a problem - it's representative of the number of people that play it. I think the image that best shows the features of the vehicle should be used. I personally think that III-era images do this better than IV-era, because the colours are brighter and the designs are simpler. The 2D titles obviously show a lot less detail, and are a bit useless as lead images. It often frustrates me when people insist on being "technically" correct (fanboy style) instead of just doing what is simplest, easiest to understand, and gets the message across best. "First" and "most recent" should be secondary to "best" and "most informative" when choosing images. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 18:48, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	== Panoz Esperante? ==		== Panoz Esperante? ==

Gboyers: /* Image */

2009-10-14T18:48:20Z

Image

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:48, 14 October 2009
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	::::::Well I guess we will have to leave to creator of the page choose a lead image, and it can be replaced by the people of GTW if they feel if that picture is obsolete. Although there should still be a lead picture, I just think if we take it out it takes away from what a good wiki should be like. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 21:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)		::::::Well I guess we will have to leave to creator of the page choose a lead image, and it can be replaced by the people of GTW if they feel if that picture is obsolete. Although there should still be a lead picture, I just think if we take it out it takes away from what a good wiki should be like. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 21:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

			----

	I disagree with a lot of this. Every page should have an image at the top. Looking at the [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=133304 current revision] of [[Police Car]], the article is boring and entirely text. As for which era should be at the top, just pick an image that best shows off what that vehicle is. Geeky arguments over which era is technically correct shouldn't ruin the experience of the wiki for most people. It's not as if someone would see a GTA IV Police Car and think "oh no that's the wrong page". If the vehicles are very different, then they should be on different pages (like [[Tug]] and [[Tug Boat]]). Please ensure every vehicle page has an image at the top. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC)		I disagree with a lot of this. Every page should have an image at the top. Looking at the [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=133304 current revision] of [[Police Car]], the article is boring and entirely text. As for which era should be at the top, just pick an image that best shows off what that vehicle is. Geeky arguments over which era is technically correct shouldn't ruin the experience of the wiki for most people. It's not as if someone would see a GTA IV Police Car and think "oh no that's the wrong page". If the vehicles are very different, then they should be on different pages (like [[Tug]] and [[Tug Boat]]). Please ensure every vehicle page has an image at the top. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
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	Also, looking at [[Banshee]] and [[Police Car]], you guys have put ALL the images into the gallery, leaving NONE to illustrate the page. This goes against the format of the wiki, leaving just text which is not pleasant to look at. Yes, if we have a lot of images, most of them should go in the gallery. A big gallery is a good thing - especially to compare the vehicles in different eras. But there's no harm in illustrating the rest of the article too. See how [[Liberty City in GTA IV Era]] is illustrated, do that wherever there is a large chunk of text. The image doesn't have to be relevant. It provides a point-of-reference for the eye which helps when reading large amounts of text or scrolling throught the page. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:35, October 13, 2009 (UTC)		Also, looking at [[Banshee]] and [[Police Car]], you guys have put ALL the images into the gallery, leaving NONE to illustrate the page. This goes against the format of the wiki, leaving just text which is not pleasant to look at. Yes, if we have a lot of images, most of them should go in the gallery. A big gallery is a good thing - especially to compare the vehicles in different eras. But there's no harm in illustrating the rest of the article too. See how [[Liberty City in GTA IV Era]] is illustrated, do that wherever there is a large chunk of text. The image doesn't have to be relevant. It provides a point-of-reference for the eye which helps when reading large amounts of text or scrolling throught the page. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:35, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	I agree with Gboyers about images on top of pages makes them much more appealing. But instead of having the first rendition's picture why not use the latest big console version, since more people are familiar with the newer games, especially considering how most of the info on the wiki is GTA IV-orientated.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 21:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)		:I agree with Gboyers about images on top of pages makes them much more appealing. But instead of having the first rendition's picture why not use the latest big console version, since more people are familiar with the newer games, especially considering how most of the info on the wiki is GTA IV-orientated.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 21:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

			::Figured it's time to resolve this. I'm not ashamed to say that I have been endorsing this sort of edits for one simple reason: Unfair representation. Articles covering vehicles from nearly all GTA games, including the classical ones (i.e. [[Police Car]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=95065], [[Fire Truck]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fire_Truck&oldid=88666], [[Ambulance]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ambulance&oldid=88440], [[Stallion]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stallion&oldid=88872] and [[Stinger]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stinger&oldid=77582]), tend to use lead images from GTA III and later, implying constant bias towards the newer 3D games. I've always thought of including the earlier renditions as lead images, but the assumption is that, eventually, some post-GTA III fanboy is going to replace it with a newer rendition, reinforcing that bias again. By eliminating lead images, all renditions receive fair representation when they are all in the gallery. If you guys are so insistent of a lead image, I want assurance that at least some of these articles use a fair share of images from both the classical and 3D games as lead images, or have the gallery moved up the article instead of placing it so far below. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	~~:Figured~~ it's ~~time to resolve this~~. I~~'m not ashamed to say~~ that I ~~have been endorsing~~ this ~~sort of edits for one simple reason: Unfair representation. Articles covering vehicles from nearly all GTA games~~, ~~including~~ the ~~classical ones (i~~.~~e. [[Police Car]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=95065]~~, [[Fire Truck]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fire_Truck&oldid=88666], [[Ambulance]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ambulance&oldid=88440], [[Stallion]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stallion&oldid=88872] and ~~[[Stinger]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stinger&oldid=77582]), tend to use~~ lead images ~~from GTA III and later, implying constant bias towards the newer 3D games~~. ~~I've always thought~~ of ~~including the earlier renditions as lead images, but the assumption~~ is ~~that~~, ~~eventually, some post-GTA III fanboy is going~~ to ~~replace it with a newer rendition~~, ~~reinforcing that bias again. By eliminating lead images, all renditions receive fair representation when they are all in~~ the ~~gallery~~. ~~If you guys are so insistent of a lead image, I want assurance that at least some of these articles use a fair share of images from both the classical~~ and ~~3D games as lead~~ images~~, or have the gallery moved up the article instead of placing it so far below~~. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)		I don't see why III/IV-era bias is a problem - it's representative of the number of people that play it. I think the image that best shows the features of the vehicle should be used. I personally think that III-era images do this better than IV-era, because the colours are brighter and the designs are simpler. The 2D titles obviously show a lot less detail, and are a bit useless as lead images. It often frustrates me when people insist on being "technically" correct (fanboy style) instead of just doing what is simplest, easiest to understand, and gets the message across best. "First" and "most recent" should be secondary to "best" and "most informative" when choosing images. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 18:48, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	== Panoz Esperante? ==		== Panoz Esperante? ==

Loadingue at 18:45, 14 October 2009

2009-10-14T18:45:43Z

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	Are they really needed to be removed ?? It's interesting enough, and I know some other websites (which are NOT encyclopedias about GTA) that notice these informations.--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 14:14, October 12, 2009 (UTC)		Are they really needed to be removed ?? It's interesting enough, and I know some other websites (which are NOT encyclopedias about GTA) that notice these informations.--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 14:14, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
	:They were moved to [[Vehicle Stats in GTA San Andreas]]. I'm thinking about doing the same kind of table-based article for the Transfender modification section. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:36, October 14, 2009 (UTC)		:They were moved to [[Vehicle Stats in GTA San Andreas]]. I'm thinking about doing the same kind of table-based article for the Transfender modification section. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:36, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

			::Sorry, I didn't know that page. Maybe I will complete it soon...--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 18:45, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

ZS: /* San Andreas Car Facts */

2009-10-14T15:36:04Z

San Andreas Car Facts

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:36, 14 October 2009
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	Are they really needed to be removed ?? It's interesting enough, and I know some other websites (which are NOT encyclopedias about GTA) that notice these informations.--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 14:14, October 12, 2009 (UTC)		Are they really needed to be removed ?? It's interesting enough, and I know some other websites (which are NOT encyclopedias about GTA) that notice these informations.--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 14:14, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
			:They were moved to [[Vehicle Stats in GTA San Andreas]]. I'm thinking about doing the same kind of table-based article for the Transfender modification section. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:36, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

ZS: /* Image */ Update.

2009-10-14T15:33:18Z

Image: Update.

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:33, 14 October 2009
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	I agree with Gboyers about images on top of pages makes them much more appealing. But instead of having the first rendition's picture why not use the latest big console version, since more people are familiar with the newer games, especially considering how most of the info on the wiki is GTA IV-orientated.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 21:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)		I agree with Gboyers about images on top of pages makes them much more appealing. But instead of having the first rendition's picture why not use the latest big console version, since more people are familiar with the newer games, especially considering how most of the info on the wiki is GTA IV-orientated.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 21:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	:Figured it's time to resolve this. I'm not ashamed to say that I have been endorsing this sort of edits for one simple reason: Unfair representation. Articles covering vehicles from nearly all GTA games, including the classical ones (i.e. [[Police Car]], [[Fire ~~Engine~~]]. [[Ambulance]]), tend to use lead images from GTA III and later, implying constant bias towards the newer 3D games. I've always thought of including the earlier renditions as lead images, but the assumption is that, eventually, some post-GTA III fanboy is going to replace it with a newer rendition, reinforcing that bias again. By eliminating lead images, all renditions receive fair representation when they are all in the gallery. If you guys are so insistent of a lead image, I want assurance that at least some of these articles use a fair share of images from both the classical and 3D games as lead images, or have the gallery moved up the article instead of placing it so far below. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)		:Figured it's time to resolve this. I'm not ashamed to say that I have been endorsing this sort of edits for one simple reason: Unfair representation. Articles covering vehicles from nearly all GTA games, including the classical ones (i.e. [[Police Car]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=95065], [[Fire Truck]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fire_Truck&oldid=88666], [[Ambulance]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ambulance&oldid=88440], [[Stallion]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stallion&oldid=88872] and [[Stinger]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stinger&oldid=77582]), tend to use lead images from GTA III and later, implying constant bias towards the newer 3D games. I've always thought of including the earlier renditions as lead images, but the assumption is that, eventually, some post-GTA III fanboy is going to replace it with a newer rendition, reinforcing that bias again. By eliminating lead images, all renditions receive fair representation when they are all in the gallery. If you guys are so insistent of a lead image, I want assurance that at least some of these articles use a fair share of images from both the classical and 3D games as lead images, or have the gallery moved up the article instead of placing it so far below. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	== Panoz Esperante? ==		== Panoz Esperante? ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:56, 14 October 2009
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	==Image==		==Image==
			:''Discussion moved to [[Forum:Vehicle page images]]''

	Could someone please replace the first picture of the banshee with something little more appealing, such as the banshee from GTA IV, this is a featured page. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 01:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	:This is a problem with most vehicle articles as no one picture is better than the other. The best thing to do is to place all images in a gallery.--'''[[User:Spaceeinstein\|Spaceeinstein]]''' 04:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	::But there should always be one in the top right corner of the article (see [[Help:Articles]]). We just need to choose the best image for that position, taking in to account things like camera angle (best image, not best version of the car, though if it comes down to that than why not?). '''[[User:Biggest gta fan ever\|Biggest GTA Fan Ever]]<sup>''[[User talk:Biggest gta fan ever\|Talk]]''</sup>''' 06:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	:::This is the problem, especially for names shared by vehicles prior to GTA III ([[Fire Truck]], [[Stallion]], [[Bus]], [[Stinger]] and [[Speeder]]). Your argument basically tips in favor of vehicles from GTA III and later, since they are a far more detailed. We might as well avoid lead pictures outright in cases like this. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 08:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::Well, taking out the lead picture in a featured page is just a horrible idea in my opinion. While it is true putting pictures of vehicles that have the best looks is favoring GTA III and IV era, the top down pictures just look bad and you can barely make out what that vehicle is suppose to be. That is why we should have the more detailed pictures, because that is what the people come here to see, not just some image of a few pixels put together 10 years ago. Although I do agree those top down pictures should be put into the gallery, they should never be put into the top right corner unless that is the only picture of that vehicle([[Karma Bus]], [[Medicar]]). [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 13:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	:::::It's amazing how shallow modern gamers are. The only way that this can be solved easily is by putting the most recent rendition at the top, but then some cars such as the [[Admiral]] were also in GTA Chinatown wars, so the whole "next-gen graphics FTW" arguement would start again. However, I think it's only fair that the earlier renditions are featured too, so maybe it ''would'' be better to just put all the images in the gallery at the bottom (unless it's the only vehicle with its name, such as the [[Cossie]] or [[[Mundano]]). Either that, or we split the article into sections "GTA 1 Rendition", "GTA III Rendition" (much like most vehicle articles at the moment already ''are'') and feature the picture of the appropriate vehicle in each section. - [[User:Hardrock182\|Hardrock182]] 16:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::::I'm still not fond of splitting it up this way. I've been looking up [[Talk:Mesa]] and found a valid justification for merging all renditions if they share the same name, simply to ease maintenance in the long run. This is why I'm sticking to my guns. Of course, there will be a conflict of interest, but it's a small price to pay to better manage this wiki. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 16:27, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::::: Okay, I see your point about not splitting it up many different pages for each one, that isn't a good idea. But back to the original point, we shouldn't have an ancient picture for a car that has much better detail in a newer picture. Although I do agree GTA III era picture should be featured, '''on occasion'''. GTA III era pictures have dominated this wiki for over 4 years, I think it is time to give room for GTA IV pictures in the top right box, especially in featured pages. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 20:44, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

	It was only last year that I [http://www.rockstargames.com/classics/ downloaded GTA1 and GTA2 from Rockstar's website]. The reason I downloaded them was because I wanted to see the evolution of the series and I admit that if I had more patience for the awkward controls and things they would have been good games, and therefore in their time, I believe that they ''were'' good games. However, it's no secret that MOST (I'm not saying all) of the people reading GTW are looking for information about the GTA III/IV eras. The image in the top-right corner of the page should (in my opinion) be the most appealing we have, that doesn't necessarily mean the version of the car that has the best performance, and it's personal preference to say which version of a car ''looks'' best (I know that I don't really care). What I mean by the best image could incorporate things like camera angle (which I mentioned before), time of day (can you see the features?), location (what's in the background), etc, to get the best looking image, and GTA1/2 cars are just simple drawings and don't seem to have that same affect (always day in GTA1 and night in GTA2, always just road and roof in background, etc). Thoughts? '''[[User:Biggest gta fan ever\|Biggest GTA Fan Ever]]<sup>''[[User talk:Biggest gta fan ever\|Talk]]''</sup>''' 05:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	:This is exactly the kind of argument has leaves me to think that the lead space should be left empty, to leave nothing for both the pre-GTA3-er and the post-GTA3-er; anyone with sense would naturally head down to the gallery section. It also works well to avoid that dreaded Wikia ad box that shows up on the upper right corner of the page when unregistered users visit this wiki. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 08:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	::Wait, is this whole section, '''image''', about the pre-GTA III era of the Banshee? Because if I read the article right it's introduced in GTA III, meaning there's no argument for putting a GTA/GTA2 car as the top-right-hand-image. And I think that the GTA III image is fine. -[[User:ScotlandTheBest\|ScotlandTheBest]] 08:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	:::It is relevant. I thought it would be appropriate to simply include the ''first'' iteration of the vehicle bearing the name, followed by the gallery of succeeding variants. But the way I see it, if the choice of lead image is determined by just graphics, we might as well forgo a lead image in articles of vehicle with multiple appearances, including the Banshee. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 09:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::Well, since the first images of a vehicle's appearance in GTA/GTA2 are small, why not have the first appearance (the small one) with a larger beneath? -[[User:ScotlandTheBest\|ScotlandTheBest]] 11:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	:::::Which is why I favour using only the gallery section to illustrate images in cases like this. I can't see a sound compromise in this matter if they still want a lead image. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 11:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

	::::::Well I guess we will have to leave to creator of the page choose a lead image, and it can be replaced by the people of GTW if they feel if that picture is obsolete. Although there should still be a lead picture, I just think if we take it out it takes away from what a good wiki should be like. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 21:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

	~~----~~

	I disagree with a lot of this. Every page should have an image at the top. Looking at the [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=133304 current revision] of [[Police Car]], the article is boring and entirely text. As for which era should be at the top, just pick an image that best shows off what that vehicle is. Geeky arguments over which era is technically correct shouldn't ruin the experience of the wiki for most people. It's not as if someone would see a GTA IV Police Car and think "oh no that's the wrong page". If the vehicles are very different, then they should be on different pages (like [[Tug]] and [[Tug Boat]]). Please ensure every vehicle page has an image at the top. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	Also, looking at [[Banshee]] and [[Police Car]], you guys have put ALL the images into the gallery, leaving NONE to illustrate the page. This goes against the format of the wiki, leaving just text which is not pleasant to look at. Yes, if we have a lot of images, most of them should go in the gallery. A big gallery is a good thing - especially to compare the vehicles in different eras. But there's no harm in illustrating the rest of the article too. See how [[Liberty City in GTA IV Era]] is illustrated, do that wherever there is a large chunk of text. The image doesn't have to be relevant. It provides a point-of-reference for the eye which helps when reading large amounts of text or scrolling throught the page. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:35, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	:I agree with Gboyers about images on top of pages makes them much more appealing. But instead of having the first rendition's picture why not use the latest big console version, since more people are familiar with the newer games, especially considering how most of the info on the wiki is GTA IV-orientated.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 21:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	::Figured it's time to resolve this. I'm not ashamed to say that I have been endorsing this sort of edits for one simple reason: Unfair representation. Articles covering vehicles from nearly all GTA games, including the classical ones (i.e. [[Police Car]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=95065], [[Fire Truck]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fire_Truck&oldid=88666], [[Ambulance]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ambulance&oldid=88440], [[Stallion]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stallion&oldid=88872] and [[Stinger]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stinger&oldid=77582]), tend to use lead images from GTA III and later, implying constant bias towards the newer 3D games. I've always thought of including the earlier renditions as lead images, but the assumption is that, eventually, some post-GTA III fanboy is going to replace it with a newer rendition, reinforcing that bias again. By eliminating lead images, all renditions receive fair representation when they are all in the gallery. If you guys are so insistent of a lead image, I want assurance that at least some of these articles use a fair share of images from both the classical and 3D games as lead images, or have the gallery moved up the article instead of placing it so far below. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	I don't see why III/IV-era bias is a problem - it's representative of the number of people that play it. I think the image that best shows the features of the vehicle should be used. I personally think that III-era images do this better than IV-era, because the colours are brighter and the designs are simpler. The 2D titles obviously show a lot less detail, and are a bit useless as lead images. It often frustrates me when people insist on being "technically" correct (fanboy style) instead of just doing what is simplest, easiest to understand, and gets the message across best. "First" and "most recent" should be secondary to "best" and "most informative" when choosing images. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 18:48, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	== Panoz Esperante? ==		== Panoz Esperante? ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:48, 14 October 2009
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	::::::Well I guess we will have to leave to creator of the page choose a lead image, and it can be replaced by the people of GTW if they feel if that picture is obsolete. Although there should still be a lead picture, I just think if we take it out it takes away from what a good wiki should be like. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 21:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)		::::::Well I guess we will have to leave to creator of the page choose a lead image, and it can be replaced by the people of GTW if they feel if that picture is obsolete. Although there should still be a lead picture, I just think if we take it out it takes away from what a good wiki should be like. [[User:Optimist33gta\|Optimist33gta]] 21:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

			----

	I disagree with a lot of this. Every page should have an image at the top. Looking at the [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=133304 current revision] of [[Police Car]], the article is boring and entirely text. As for which era should be at the top, just pick an image that best shows off what that vehicle is. Geeky arguments over which era is technically correct shouldn't ruin the experience of the wiki for most people. It's not as if someone would see a GTA IV Police Car and think "oh no that's the wrong page". If the vehicles are very different, then they should be on different pages (like [[Tug]] and [[Tug Boat]]). Please ensure every vehicle page has an image at the top. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC)		I disagree with a lot of this. Every page should have an image at the top. Looking at the [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=133304 current revision] of [[Police Car]], the article is boring and entirely text. As for which era should be at the top, just pick an image that best shows off what that vehicle is. Geeky arguments over which era is technically correct shouldn't ruin the experience of the wiki for most people. It's not as if someone would see a GTA IV Police Car and think "oh no that's the wrong page". If the vehicles are very different, then they should be on different pages (like [[Tug]] and [[Tug Boat]]). Please ensure every vehicle page has an image at the top. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
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	Also, looking at [[Banshee]] and [[Police Car]], you guys have put ALL the images into the gallery, leaving NONE to illustrate the page. This goes against the format of the wiki, leaving just text which is not pleasant to look at. Yes, if we have a lot of images, most of them should go in the gallery. A big gallery is a good thing - especially to compare the vehicles in different eras. But there's no harm in illustrating the rest of the article too. See how [[Liberty City in GTA IV Era]] is illustrated, do that wherever there is a large chunk of text. The image doesn't have to be relevant. It provides a point-of-reference for the eye which helps when reading large amounts of text or scrolling throught the page. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:35, October 13, 2009 (UTC)		Also, looking at [[Banshee]] and [[Police Car]], you guys have put ALL the images into the gallery, leaving NONE to illustrate the page. This goes against the format of the wiki, leaving just text which is not pleasant to look at. Yes, if we have a lot of images, most of them should go in the gallery. A big gallery is a good thing - especially to compare the vehicles in different eras. But there's no harm in illustrating the rest of the article too. See how [[Liberty City in GTA IV Era]] is illustrated, do that wherever there is a large chunk of text. The image doesn't have to be relevant. It provides a point-of-reference for the eye which helps when reading large amounts of text or scrolling throught the page. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 10:35, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

	I agree with Gboyers about images on top of pages makes them much more appealing. But instead of having the first rendition's picture why not use the latest big console version, since more people are familiar with the newer games, especially considering how most of the info on the wiki is GTA IV-orientated.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 21:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)		:I agree with Gboyers about images on top of pages makes them much more appealing. But instead of having the first rendition's picture why not use the latest big console version, since more people are familiar with the newer games, especially considering how most of the info on the wiki is GTA IV-orientated.--[[User:Thescarydude\|Thescarydude]] 21:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

			::Figured it's time to resolve this. I'm not ashamed to say that I have been endorsing this sort of edits for one simple reason: Unfair representation. Articles covering vehicles from nearly all GTA games, including the classical ones (i.e. [[Police Car]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=95065], [[Fire Truck]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fire_Truck&oldid=88666], [[Ambulance]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ambulance&oldid=88440], [[Stallion]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stallion&oldid=88872] and [[Stinger]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stinger&oldid=77582]), tend to use lead images from GTA III and later, implying constant bias towards the newer 3D games. I've always thought of including the earlier renditions as lead images, but the assumption is that, eventually, some post-GTA III fanboy is going to replace it with a newer rendition, reinforcing that bias again. By eliminating lead images, all renditions receive fair representation when they are all in the gallery. If you guys are so insistent of a lead image, I want assurance that at least some of these articles use a fair share of images from both the classical and 3D games as lead images, or have the gallery moved up the article instead of placing it so far below. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	~~:Figured~~ it's ~~time to resolve this~~. I~~'m not ashamed to say~~ that I ~~have been endorsing~~ this ~~sort of edits for one simple reason: Unfair representation. Articles covering vehicles from nearly all GTA games~~, ~~including~~ the ~~classical ones (i~~.~~e. [[Police Car]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Police_Car&oldid=95065]~~, [[Fire Truck]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fire_Truck&oldid=88666], [[Ambulance]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ambulance&oldid=88440], [[Stallion]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stallion&oldid=88872] and ~~[[Stinger]] [http://gta.wikia.com/index.php?title=Stinger&oldid=77582]), tend to use~~ lead images ~~from GTA III and later, implying constant bias towards the newer 3D games~~. ~~I've always thought~~ of ~~including the earlier renditions as lead images, but the assumption~~ is ~~that~~, ~~eventually, some post-GTA III fanboy is going~~ to ~~replace it with a newer rendition~~, ~~reinforcing that bias again. By eliminating lead images, all renditions receive fair representation when they are all in~~ the ~~gallery~~. ~~If you guys are so insistent of a lead image, I want assurance that at least some of these articles use a fair share of images from both the classical~~ and ~~3D games as lead~~ images~~, or have the gallery moved up the article instead of placing it so far below~~. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)		I don't see why III/IV-era bias is a problem - it's representative of the number of people that play it. I think the image that best shows the features of the vehicle should be used. I personally think that III-era images do this better than IV-era, because the colours are brighter and the designs are simpler. The 2D titles obviously show a lot less detail, and are a bit useless as lead images. It often frustrates me when people insist on being "technically" correct (fanboy style) instead of just doing what is simplest, easiest to understand, and gets the message across best. "First" and "most recent" should be secondary to "best" and "most informative" when choosing images. [[User:Gboyers\|Gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 18:48, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

	== Panoz Esperante? ==		== Panoz Esperante? ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:45, 14 October 2009
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	Are they really needed to be removed ?? It's interesting enough, and I know some other websites (which are NOT encyclopedias about GTA) that notice these informations.--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 14:14, October 12, 2009 (UTC)		Are they really needed to be removed ?? It's interesting enough, and I know some other websites (which are NOT encyclopedias about GTA) that notice these informations.--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 14:14, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
	:They were moved to [[Vehicle Stats in GTA San Andreas]]. I'm thinking about doing the same kind of table-based article for the Transfender modification section. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:36, October 14, 2009 (UTC)		:They were moved to [[Vehicle Stats in GTA San Andreas]]. I'm thinking about doing the same kind of table-based article for the Transfender modification section. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 15:36, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

			::Sorry, I didn't know that page. Maybe I will complete it soon...--[[User:Loadingue\|Loadingue]] 18:45, October 14, 2009 (UTC)