User talk:ZS - Revision history

DT-boy: /* Need to see a deleted template */

2013-12-15T14:16:54Z

Need to see a deleted template

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:16, 15 December 2013
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	Hello ZS! I'd like to know if there's a way to get to see a version of the deleted "[[Template:Gtaiii era radio stations]]" template. I need to look after some reference (mainly the in-game order of the radio stations) which was written there. --[[User:DT-boy\|DT-boy]] ([[User talk:DT-boy\|talk]]\|[[Special:Contributions/DT-boy\|edits]]) 10:53, 15 December 2013 (GMT)		Hello ZS! I'd like to know if there's a way to get to see a version of the deleted "[[Template:Gtaiii era radio stations]]" template. I need to look after some reference (mainly the in-game order of the radio stations) which was written there. --[[User:DT-boy\|DT-boy]] ([[User talk:DT-boy\|talk]]\|[[Special:Contributions/DT-boy\|edits]]) 10:53, 15 December 2013 (GMT)
			:Problem solved. --[[User:DT-boy\|DT-boy]] ([[User talk:DT-boy\|talk]]\|[[Special:Contributions/DT-boy\|edits]]) 14:16, 15 December 2013 (GMT)

DT-boy: /* Need to see a deleted template */ New discussion

2013-12-15T10:53:48Z

Need to see a deleted template: New discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:53, 15 December 2013
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	If you would be willing to curate the 2D era content, provide some excerpts that I could post, that would be awesome. Things like just highlighting a different cool vehicle, mission, feature or screenshot, and posting one a day. We could have a big "2D Week" event where we show off the best things this wiki has relating to those games, and encourage visitors to download and play them. That would be way better for the wiki, its editors and its users than just going around fixing redirect links. I challenge you to work with me do something like that. Interested? [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 22:54, 30 November 2012 (UTC)		If you would be willing to curate the 2D era content, provide some excerpts that I could post, that would be awesome. Things like just highlighting a different cool vehicle, mission, feature or screenshot, and posting one a day. We could have a big "2D Week" event where we show off the best things this wiki has relating to those games, and encourage visitors to download and play them. That would be way better for the wiki, its editors and its users than just going around fixing redirect links. I challenge you to work with me do something like that. Interested? [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 22:54, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

			== Need to see a deleted template ==

			Hello ZS! I'd like to know if there's a way to get to see a version of the deleted "[[Template:Gtaiii era radio stations]]" template. I need to look after some reference (mainly the in-game order of the radio stations) which was written there. --[[User:DT-boy\|DT-boy]] ([[User talk:DT-boy\|talk]]\|[[Special:Contributions/DT-boy\|edits]]) 10:53, 15 December 2013 (GMT)

A-Dust: Removing deleted image.

2013-02-05T14:20:31Z

Removing deleted image.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:20, 5 February 2013
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	:Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0SCHkDWPos. You also need to watch a related videos of the ghosts in GTA San Andreas. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 16:24, September 22, 2010 (UTC)		:Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0SCHkDWPos. You also need to watch a related videos of the ghosts in GTA San Andreas. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 16:24, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
	::Well, they did specify that it's a myth. If I wanted to verify something like that, I'll rather dig up game data that proves that such a "myth" was intentionally inserted into the game rather than only relying on gameplay, when in-game elements and one's perception can muddle the reality of it. And since I can't be bothered with myth hunting, I haven't seen anything like this. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 19:03, September 22, 2010 (UTC)		::Well, they did specify that it's a myth. If I wanted to verify something like that, I'll rather dig up game data that proves that such a "myth" was intentionally inserted into the game rather than only relying on gameplay, when in-game elements and one's perception can muddle the reality of it. And since I can't be bothered with myth hunting, I haven't seen anything like this. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 19:03, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
	~~[[File:Ghost_town_figure.jpg\|thumb\|left\|Ghost on Las Brujas. This is real.]]~~
	:Here I have a picture of the ghost town figure. This is real truth. So creepy, they always appear between 23:00 midnight to 5:00 morning. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 09:17, September 25, 2010 (UTC)		:Here I have a picture of the ghost town figure. This is real truth. So creepy, they always appear between 23:00 midnight to 5:00 morning. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 09:17, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
	:Its possible to recruit the ghost by first type 'SJMAHPE' cheat code then recruit her. Its too difficult to recruit, but she's disappear before the player recruits her. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 08:03, September 26, 2010 (UTC)		:Its possible to recruit the ghost by first type 'SJMAHPE' cheat code then recruit her. Its too difficult to recruit, but she's disappear before the player recruits her. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 08:03, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Gboyers: /* Re: ZS */

2012-11-30T22:54:36Z

Re: ZS

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:54, 30 November 2012
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	:This wiki is made up of lots of different editors, that's how we have always worked. Some like writing content, some like editing content, some like organising pages, some like building templates, some like making things pretty, some like taking screenshots and adding them, some like selecting and using images, some like proof-reading, some like fact-checking. This wiki needs all these different people to work - I do not expect one person to do everything. Even in the staff, some like organising the wiki, some like inspecting and fixing content, others like to get involved in some of the behind-the-scenes stuff. If there are things you really hate doing, things that make you want to leave, then I'd rather you spent your time on things you did enjoy and someone else could pick that up. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 21:56, 22 November 2012 (UTC)		:This wiki is made up of lots of different editors, that's how we have always worked. Some like writing content, some like editing content, some like organising pages, some like building templates, some like making things pretty, some like taking screenshots and adding them, some like selecting and using images, some like proof-reading, some like fact-checking. This wiki needs all these different people to work - I do not expect one person to do everything. Even in the staff, some like organising the wiki, some like inspecting and fixing content, others like to get involved in some of the behind-the-scenes stuff. If there are things you really hate doing, things that make you want to leave, then I'd rather you spent your time on things you did enjoy and someone else could pick that up. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 21:56, 22 November 2012 (UTC)


			Yes, cleanup is tedious, but I'm not sure there's a reasonable solution to that. We could require all users to be approved before they can edit, or semi-protect all content articles, or make the wiki invite-only, or require all edits to be patrolled before appearing; but I think all of those would have a negative total effect on the content - relying even more on our small number of committed users and pushing new editors further away. Of course I kno

			"Bots" covers a few different things. There are the automated command-line tools we use for mass editing such as adding/removing a category. However, there are others intended to ''assist'' editors in their daily activities. [[:wp:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser\|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] is really useful for finding articles to edit (automatically loading categories etc) and then for doing things like syntax/spelling/grammar checks ''whilst'' you go about your editing, I'd suggest giving it a try, as it can help cut out the most tedious parts of editing.

			With regards to redirects, I think we're talking about two different things. I meant that you and A-Dust seem to be putting in a lot of effort going around changing <code><nowiki>[[GTA San Andreas]]</nowiki></code> to <code><nowiki>[[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas\|GTA San Andreas]]</nowiki></code> - whilst that is ''right'' I don't think it should be our priority to seek those out and change them, particularly when you're complaining about all the tedious editing. The fact that a link goes to a redirect is ''not'' a problem that affects the wiki or its users. The load on the server from a redirect is non-existent - there is more load for each template on a page. But yes, double redirects do need fixing in every instance, but we have an automated tool that can do that automatically daily.

			With regards to capitalisation of titles (eg SWAT Tank) that is actually the next discussion planned. Definitely worth a discussion, and I'm open to changing that.

			With [[Benson]] - the split was the important part, the names were not. Feel free to move them as I mentioned earlier.

			The TOC is there as one option for navigating within an article, but that's not a reason to merge two unrelated articles. Why not have [[Tommy Vercetti]] and [[Tommy Francovic]] on the same page and just use the TOC to distinguish the sections? Why not [[Introduction (GTA VC)]] and [[The Introduction]]? Because they are completely separate, unrelated articles that only share a name - they should not be on the same page. Name them whatever you want, but the two Benson articles should not share a page.

			You're absolutely right that not many users bother with the 2D games, and that is a shame. I'd like to know how we can encourage more people to edit those sections, but I don't know many people that still play those games, and we struggle enough finding new editors to edit pages about the new games! However, I don't believe that is going to suddenly change because of filling infoboxes with a low-resolution 2D overhead image of a vehicle instead of a 3D rendering, or forcing people to see content they don't want.

			The things that will really help is promoting 2D games through the [[FA\|featured article]] and social media channels, but so far absolutely no staff members have assisted with either of those things. Each post on the GTW Facebook gets a thousand views, and we have a thousand followers on Twitter. With a couple of retweets, some of our posts can been seen by 20,000 people through Facebook+Twitter alone.

			If you would be willing to curate the 2D era content, provide some excerpts that I could post, that would be awesome. Things like just highlighting a different cool vehicle, mission, feature or screenshot, and posting one a day. We could have a big "2D Week" event where we show off the best things this wiki has relating to those games, and encourage visitors to download and play them. That would be way better for the wiki, its editors and its users than just going around fixing redirect links. I challenge you to work with me do something like that. Interested? [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 22:54, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Gboyers: /* Re: ZS */

2012-11-22T21:56:38Z

Re: ZS

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:56, 22 November 2012
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	Yes, this wiki is a great platform, but there is so much more to do! Let's do it. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 08:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)		Yes, this wiki is a great platform, but there is so much more to do! Let's do it. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 08:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

			:I'm sorry my replies are long but I think you'd rather me explain than just go "no".

			:Our policies are not definitive, restrictive, proscriptive rules at all. We try to make systems that can be applied to articles, to cover all eventualities. The LCD system I propose gives editors MORE freedom for what articles can be about, and it just specifies what the title should be for each possibility. So you could make an article about "Missions in GTA 2" or "Plot in the HD Universe" and they're all equally valid - we just think about making a good, useful article, and simply pick the name that fits. Nothing more sinister than that.

			:As for the tedious chores with no breathing room, I dispute that. Yes, as the wiki becomes more 'complete' (at least before GTA V), there will be less blue-sky broad-scale article creation to do, and as a result there is more cleaning up to do. I do not think big reorganisations are necessary, except when we change something like, but we do have [[User:Gtabot\|Gtabot]] to do a lot of that stuff.

			:I know you go around changing all redirect-links to piped-links, but I do ''not'' think that is necessary. I've certainly never asked anyone to do it and there is no policy saying that's what we should do. Yes, we should fix broken links, and some links do need to be piped, but there is no real benefit to going around piping every link on the wiki to a different page when a redirect serves that purpose. If this is the tedious work that you don't want to do, dont do it! Redirects are there to help editors as well as users who are searching, and they solve the problems with capitalisation etc.

			:With regards to Benson, I don't understand the problem. They are two completely unrelated articles - with nothing in common except sharing a name. Don't think of it as "reasons to split" - it's not as if we have all articles on 1 page and split them when it gets big. We have one page about each distinct thing. The Benson sports car is one thing, the Benson truck is another thing. So they should be on separate pages.

			:However, the actual naming of the pages is open - in fact if we adopted the LCD system, that would suggest we name them "Benson in GTA 2" rather than "Benson (car)". The idea of forcing the two articles to share the page is harmful to the content, confusing to the users, and there's no good reason for it. I can not see one single benefit of them sharing a page, except the fact that both cars would be on the same page. This has nothing to do with page size at all.

			:This wiki is made up of lots of different editors, that's how we have always worked. Some like writing content, some like editing content, some like organising pages, some like building templates, some like making things pretty, some like taking screenshots and adding them, some like selecting and using images, some like proof-reading, some like fact-checking. This wiki needs all these different people to work - I do not expect one person to do everything. Even in the staff, some like organising the wiki, some like inspecting and fixing content, others like to get involved in some of the behind-the-scenes stuff. If there are things you really hate doing, things that make you want to leave, then I'd rather you spent your time on things you did enjoy and someone else could pick that up. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 21:56, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Gboyers: /* Re: ZS */ New discussion

2012-11-21T08:45:08Z

Re: ZS: New discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:45, 21 November 2012
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	Yeah I had a brain fart when I forgot the Insurrection was an Imponte (despite having the page open in front of me). I think ad transcriptions are useful, as they give information plus a feel for the image/message the company is giving off. A video or audio file would be better, though. A "waste of space" isn't important here, what would matter would be having useless information that either detracts from the quality of other content or dilutes the wiki to the point that we can't look after the content we do have. I'm not saying we need to have full transcriptions of every mission, pedestrian and radio/tv media, but it's a start to covering more than just lists, trivia and screenshots. I hope we can cover GTA V in more detail than any previous game, and continue to improve the games we already have on here. That's the plan, anyway! [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 21:54, 19 November 2012 (UTC)		Yeah I had a brain fart when I forgot the Insurrection was an Imponte (despite having the page open in front of me). I think ad transcriptions are useful, as they give information plus a feel for the image/message the company is giving off. A video or audio file would be better, though. A "waste of space" isn't important here, what would matter would be having useless information that either detracts from the quality of other content or dilutes the wiki to the point that we can't look after the content we do have. I'm not saying we need to have full transcriptions of every mission, pedestrian and radio/tv media, but it's a start to covering more than just lists, trivia and screenshots. I hope we can cover GTA V in more detail than any previous game, and continue to improve the games we already have on here. That's the plan, anyway! [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 21:54, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

			== Re: ZS ==

			I'm aware of your dissatisfaction with a number of policies, which is why I'm trying to hold constructive discussions to resolve them. When different users and admins so fiercely disagree, I can't just go "okay then" and reverse our policy, forcing tens of thousands of pages to be changed, if then two weeks later JFletcher comes along and makes an equally valid point and I reverse it again. This discussion on Eras, for example, would go on for months or years if it wasn't resolved now. That's why it will be resolved soon.

			I don't think it's a waste of manpower when each admin contributes only a couple of paragraphs on each discussion every few weeks. To be honest, I think the staff should engage more in that decision-making. If they don't, then it will just be me making decisions without input from anyone else, which is not the best way to do things. I need people like you to point out the flaws and work out the exceptions and provide ideas or fully-grown suggestions to ensure we have the best possible wiki.

			I have to correct you - the GTA Wikia is ''active'' rather than popular. The quality of the edits and content on that site is laughably low, just see their GTA V page. You don't see users going around saying "this wiki is the best site ever, go check it out". Whilst the users are still bickering about SA myths, The staff spend all their time beefing up their own egos and shamelessly deleting or reverting images and edits that don't explicitly meet their draconian policies. Admittedly it's not quite as bad as when Jeff was running the show himself, but since I've been looking through [[Special:Patrol]] I've not seen a single edit that has had to be reverted.

			You're right that we need to increase our exposure and popularity, but so far I'm the only staff member who has ever worked on that. Despite having a full-time job and performing all the technical admin of this wiki and our servers, I run all our social media campaigns and work to increase the exposure of GTW on other sites. If you're willing and able to help with that, that would be incredible!

			I'm sure it will be disappointing for you if the consensus is to use the LCD system (games/eras/universes) rather than your GTA III - GTA Vice City Stories system. But if that's the consensus, then that's the consensus. I've not seen an alternative proposal that will benefit the wiki or its users, and I'm sure you know that "because Wikipedia do it" is not going to swing it. If you have further to contribute to the discussion, please do. I want this decision to be as wide a consensus and as final as possible. Yes if things radically change we can always revisit it, but we shouldn't have to for GTA V.

			Yes, this wiki is a great platform, but there is so much more to do! Let's do it. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 08:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Gboyers: /* Monstrosity */ New discussion

2012-11-19T21:54:02Z

Monstrosity: New discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:54, 19 November 2012
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	:Of course, if the copyright holder asks, we will remove any offending material. For screenshots of GTA games, that means Rockstar Games. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 23:14, 8 November 2012 (UTC)		:Of course, if the copyright holder asks, we will remove any offending material. For screenshots of GTA games, that means Rockstar Games. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 23:14, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

			== Monstrosity ==

			Yeah I had a brain fart when I forgot the Insurrection was an Imponte (despite having the page open in front of me). I think ad transcriptions are useful, as they give information plus a feel for the image/message the company is giving off. A video or audio file would be better, though. A "waste of space" isn't important here, what would matter would be having useless information that either detracts from the quality of other content or dilutes the wiki to the point that we can't look after the content we do have. I'm not saying we need to have full transcriptions of every mission, pedestrian and radio/tv media, but it's a start to covering more than just lists, trivia and screenshots. I hope we can cover GTA V in more detail than any previous game, and continue to improve the games we already have on here. That's the plan, anyway! [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 21:54, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Gboyers: /* Re: Game Informer Images */

2012-11-08T23:14:59Z

Re: Game Informer Images

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:14, 8 November 2012
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	That said, they do need renaming as I realise I got the image naming structure wrong, again! [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 23:01, 8 November 2012 (UTC)		That said, they do need renaming as I realise I got the image naming structure wrong, again! [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 23:01, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

			:Of course, if the copyright holder asks, we will remove any offending material. For screenshots of GTA games, that means Rockstar Games. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 23:14, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Gboyers: /* Re: Game Informer Images */ New discussion

2012-11-08T23:01:49Z

Re: Game Informer Images: New discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:01, 8 November 2012
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	:You may like [[Special:AbuseLog\|this log]] to see some of the things that have been warned or stopped. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup>		:You may like [[Special:AbuseLog\|this log]] to see some of the things that have been warned or stopped. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup>

			== Re: Game Informer Images ==

			You raise a good point, but as per our [[Grand Theft Wiki:Licensing\|Licensing]] policy:

			{{quote\|We believe it is fair to use screenshots of games to represent games and the characters, vehicles and locations in those games. We also believe that it is fair to use existing screenshots for that purpose, since we (by default) allow images to be reproduced elsewhere. Credit will be given where due.}}

			This means that (as shown in our [[Template:Gtav_screenshot\|copyright templates]]) we believe all GTA screenshots belong to Rockstar, not the person who takes or distributes them. Game Informer may have been given the screenshots, but we believe they are ultimately Rockstar's to allow or refuse anyone to use.

			I absolutely agree we should not lift chunks of text (or the whole article) from the magazine, any any custom artwork or other content they have produced themselves. But game screenshots are not theirs to regulate. If Rockstar would like them to remain exclusive, by all means they can ask us to remove them, but whilst the exclusivity is lucrative, I don't believe criminalising the dissemination of that information is to the benefit of any party.

			That said, they do need renaming as I realise I got the image naming structure wrong, again! [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 23:01, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Gboyers: /* User Registrations */

2012-10-30T16:34:21Z

User Registrations

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	Yes, we do get a lot of spam registrations, but we have a range of measures in place to monitor them all and stop them from spamming. I won't discuss our anti-spam or security measures here in public, but feel free to email me (my name @ this site) if you'd like me to go through it. Other than clogging up Recent Changes (which I'll stop it from doing), they don't cause us any issues. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 15:39, 30 October 2012 (UTC)		Yes, we do get a lot of spam registrations, but we have a range of measures in place to monitor them all and stop them from spamming. I won't discuss our anti-spam or security measures here in public, but feel free to email me (my name @ this site) if you'd like me to go through it. Other than clogging up Recent Changes (which I'll stop it from doing), they don't cause us any issues. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup> 15:39, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


			:You may like [[Special:AbuseLog\|this log]] to see some of the things that have been warned or stopped. [[User:Gboyers\|gboyers]] <sup>[[User_talk:Gboyers\|talk]]</sup>

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:20, 5 February 2013
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	:Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0SCHkDWPos. You also need to watch a related videos of the ghosts in GTA San Andreas. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 16:24, September 22, 2010 (UTC)		:Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0SCHkDWPos. You also need to watch a related videos of the ghosts in GTA San Andreas. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 16:24, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
	::Well, they did specify that it's a myth. If I wanted to verify something like that, I'll rather dig up game data that proves that such a "myth" was intentionally inserted into the game rather than only relying on gameplay, when in-game elements and one's perception can muddle the reality of it. And since I can't be bothered with myth hunting, I haven't seen anything like this. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 19:03, September 22, 2010 (UTC)		::Well, they did specify that it's a myth. If I wanted to verify something like that, I'll rather dig up game data that proves that such a "myth" was intentionally inserted into the game rather than only relying on gameplay, when in-game elements and one's perception can muddle the reality of it. And since I can't be bothered with myth hunting, I haven't seen anything like this. - [[User:ZS\|ZS]] 19:03, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
	~~[[File:Ghost_town_figure.jpg\|thumb\|left\|Ghost on Las Brujas. This is real.]]~~
	:Here I have a picture of the ghost town figure. This is real truth. So creepy, they always appear between 23:00 midnight to 5:00 morning. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 09:17, September 25, 2010 (UTC)		:Here I have a picture of the ghost town figure. This is real truth. So creepy, they always appear between 23:00 midnight to 5:00 morning. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 09:17, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
	:Its possible to recruit the ghost by first type 'SJMAHPE' cheat code then recruit her. Its too difficult to recruit, but she's disappear before the player recruits her. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 08:03, September 26, 2010 (UTC)		:Its possible to recruit the ghost by first type 'SJMAHPE' cheat code then recruit her. Its too difficult to recruit, but she's disappear before the player recruits her. --[[User:Videogamer13\|Videogamer13]] 08:03, September 26, 2010 (UTC)