Community:GTA IV Gripes/Weapons: Difference between revisions

Added gripe about weapon range/damage system
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(Added gripe about weapon range/damage system)
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:::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]True, but flamethrowers in real life are very bulky and unwieldy contraptions, requiring two people to use, unlike the pseudo-rifle design found in the GTA III era. These devices weigh more than 60 lbs. when fully fueled and charged, have a burn time of at most 10 seconds, and have an effective range of less than 100 feet. Also, the United States Department of Defense has not used flamethrowers in the field since Vietnam.
:::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]True, but flamethrowers in real life are very bulky and unwieldy contraptions, requiring two people to use, unlike the pseudo-rifle design found in the GTA III era. These devices weigh more than 60 lbs. when fully fueled and charged, have a burn time of at most 10 seconds, and have an effective range of less than 100 feet. Also, the United States Department of Defense has not used flamethrowers in the field since Vietnam.
::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]First point the crowd of people I want to barbeque are going to be in a quiet little park less than <u>20 feet</u> from me. On to the important part, Niko is already carrying hundreds of kilos of weight in body armor, weapons and ammunition, so weight is obviously not an issue here. why not let me have access to a .50 rifle that would throw people 10-15 meters back. a flamethrower to roast marshmellows (think of the havoc this could cause in midtown Algonquin. A katana to sever people. and many more guns guns guns.
::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]First point the crowd of people I want to barbeque are going to be in a quiet little park less than <u>20 feet</u> from me. On to the important part, Niko is already carrying hundreds of kilos of weight in body armor, weapons and ammunition, so weight is obviously not an issue here. why not let me have access to a .50 rifle that would throw people 10-15 meters back. a flamethrower to roast marshmellows (think of the havoc this could cause in midtown Algonquin. A katana to sever people. and many more guns guns guns.
:::::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]First, scroll down towards the bottom of the page for the rebuttals against additional guns in the game's inventory and the inclusion of the katana. Second, you want an anti-material rifle in the game? A [[wp:Barrett M82|Barrett M82 "Light-Fifty" AM Rifle]] weighs around 30 lbs. unloaded and without its accessories, more than the loaded weight of a RPG-7 (around 20 lbs.) or a M24 Sniper Weapon System (rifle, scope, etc.--around 16 lbs.), it has a overall length of 57 inches (for a 29 in. barrel), and it has a unit replacement cost of more than $8,600. Because of its size, it is fired in the prone position, which cannot be done in game. Some states ban civilian ownership of large caliber rifles &amp; ammo, including New York, which Liberty State is based on. The U.S. Military primarily uses the M82 for bomb disposal purposes rather than for anti-personnel use. In short, an AM rifle is too cumbersome and too expensive to serve as a practical weapon in GTA. Also, a bullet of ANY caliber cannot knock a person back ([[wp:Newton's_laws_of_motion#Newton.27s_third_law:_law_of_reciprocal_actions|see Newton's 3rd law of motion]])
:::::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]First, scroll down towards the bottom of the page for the rebuttals against additional guns in the game's inventory and the inclusion of the katana. Second, you want an anti-material rifle in the game? A [[wp:Barrett M82|Barrett M82 "Light-Fifty" AM Rifle]] weighs around 30 lbs. unloaded and without its accessories, more than the loaded weight of a RPG-7 (around 20 lbs.) or a M24 Sniper Weapon System (rifle, scope, etc.--around 16 lbs.), it has a overall length of 57 inches (for a 29 in. barrel), and it has a unit replacement cost of more than $8,600. Because of its size, it is fired in the prone position, which cannot be done in game. Some states ban civilian ownership of large caliber rifles & ammo, including New York, which Liberty State is based on. The U.S. Military primarily uses the M82 for bomb disposal purposes rather than for anti-personnel use. In short, an AM rifle is too cumbersome and too expensive to serve as a practical weapon in GTA. Also, a bullet of ANY caliber cannot knock a person back ([[wp:Newton's_laws_of_motion#Newton.27s_third_law:_law_of_reciprocal_actions|see Newton's 3rd law of motion]])
::::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]All weapons are banned in the whole state of Liberty City and Alderney thats why they have underground gun shops!!!!
::::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]All weapons are banned in the whole state of Liberty City and Alderney thats why they have underground gun shops!!!!
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:::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]That's about as crystal-clear as it gets. Flamethrowers are not like assault rifles; you can't just insert a fresh magazine and go. You need to fill the gas tanks, charge them with the compressed air, which requires two people, and you need to be frugal with the fuel, because after ten seconds it's all used up. Plus, a fully-fueled and charged flamethrower weighs in at about 64 pounds/29.03 kilograms, so running and gunning is not a viable option. Rockstar opted for realism in GTA IV, and that's about as realistic as it gets.
:::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]That's about as crystal-clear as it gets. Flamethrowers are not like assault rifles; you can't just insert a fresh magazine and go. You need to fill the gas tanks, charge them with the compressed air, which requires two people, and you need to be frugal with the fuel, because after ten seconds it's all used up. Plus, a fully-fueled and charged flamethrower weighs in at about 64 pounds/29.03 kilograms, so running and gunning is not a viable option. Rockstar opted for realism in GTA IV, and that's about as realistic as it gets.
::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Obviously some loser never played CoD5. The M2 Flamethrower just needed to cool down...
::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Obviously some loser never played CoD5. The M2 Flamethrower just needed to cool down...
:::::{{Rebut}} This isn't CoD5!
:::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] This isn't CoD5!
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[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Okay so how come GTA SA has no realism? Neigh,how is it realistic the man carries sooo man guns and soooo much ammo in just ONE shirt.Where is Niko even keeping these guns?!It makes no sense!
[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Okay so how come GTA SA has no realism? Neigh,how is it realistic the man carries sooo man guns and soooo much ammo in just ONE shirt.Where is Niko even keeping these guns?!It makes no sense!
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:::::::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] Firstly, learn to indent your posts so they fit neatly into the thread. Secondly, something isn't so just because you say it with enough force, stop being immature. If you want numbers, I'll give you numbers. An M-134 minigun weighs 30 kgs, that's ''not'' including ammunition. A 1,500 round container of 7.62x51 weighs even more than the weapon itself at 58 kgs bringing the total to 88 kgs. That's a hell of a lot of weight, not to mention the fact these objects are also bulky. Even if you ''could'' carry and fire it effectively, how long do you think those 1,500 rounds will last you? At the M-134's ''lowest'' rate of fire of 3,000 rounds per minute that's good for 30 seconds of sustained fire. 30 whole seconds, and then you need to find a backup weapon. It is an ''incredibly'' ridiculous proposition for an individual weapon, end of story.
:::::::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] Firstly, learn to indent your posts so they fit neatly into the thread. Secondly, something isn't so just because you say it with enough force, stop being immature. If you want numbers, I'll give you numbers. An M-134 minigun weighs 30 kgs, that's ''not'' including ammunition. A 1,500 round container of 7.62x51 weighs even more than the weapon itself at 58 kgs bringing the total to 88 kgs. That's a hell of a lot of weight, not to mention the fact these objects are also bulky. Even if you ''could'' carry and fire it effectively, how long do you think those 1,500 rounds will last you? At the M-134's ''lowest'' rate of fire of 3,000 rounds per minute that's good for 30 seconds of sustained fire. 30 whole seconds, and then you need to find a backup weapon. It is an ''incredibly'' ridiculous proposition for an individual weapon, end of story.
::::::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]He is already carrying an RPG, sniper rifle, carbine and more so weight is not a factor here.
::::::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]He is already carrying an RPG, sniper rifle, carbine and more so weight is not a factor here.
:::::::::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]While it is true that Niko, Johnny, &amp; Luis DO carry an impractical amount of weapons and ammo (GTA IV is a video game, so there is room for ''some'' impossibility), but the weapons they have available ''are'' intended for individual combat (some weapons, such as the RPG and sniper rifles, were meant for 2-man teams, but they can still be used by an individual). The minigun is meant to be mounted on a vehicle frame for suppressive fire. Next time you come across an [[Annihilator]], see how large and long its miniguns are. Do you think a normal person could even ''pick-up and carry'' one of the miniguns by himself/herself, much less fire it?
:::::::::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]While it is true that Niko, Johnny, & Luis DO carry an impractical amount of weapons and ammo (GTA IV is a video game, so there is room for ''some'' impossibility), but the weapons they have available ''are'' intended for individual combat (some weapons, such as the RPG and sniper rifles, were meant for 2-man teams, but they can still be used by an individual). The minigun is meant to be mounted on a vehicle frame for suppressive fire. Next time you come across an [[Annihilator]], see how large and long its miniguns are. Do you think a normal person could even ''pick-up and carry'' one of the miniguns by himself/herself, much less fire it?
::::::::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Okay, have you ever PLAYED the San Andreas GTA? CJ can EASILY lift one of those bad boys! Okay, maybe the power was a little overwhelming, but that could be FIXED! Besides, the minigun on the Hunter helicopter is SHORTER! lawl im no good at this [[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]
::::::::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Okay, have you ever PLAYED the San Andreas GTA? CJ can EASILY lift one of those bad boys! Okay, maybe the power was a little overwhelming, but that could be FIXED! Besides, the minigun on the Hunter helicopter is SHORTER! lawl im no good at this [[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]
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::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Especially since none of the weapons do much damage (the RPG is okay, it does'nt have enough ammo), when you are surrounded by thousands of cops
::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Especially since none of the weapons do much damage (the RPG is okay, it does'nt have enough ammo), when you are surrounded by thousands of cops
:::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]The only reason to say none of the weapons do much damage is not knowing how to aim. The aiming system lets you get head shots incredibly easily. A single clip of the Carbine is enough to take out over two dozen enemies at long range. There isn't a lack of powerful weapons, just a lack of skill.
:::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]The only reason to say none of the weapons do much damage is not knowing how to aim. The aiming system lets you get head shots incredibly easily. A single clip of the Carbine is enough to take out over two dozen enemies at long range. There isn't a lack of powerful weapons, just a lack of skill.
::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Rebutting the original gripe of the limited number of weapons, you don't need multiple weapons for a single weapons class. First off, having too many choices can overwhelm or confuse players, second, having several different weapons with similar technical specifications (weight, effective range, etc.) creates redundancy, third, having additional weapons in a single class creates balancing issues (This is why the weapons introduced in [[The Lost and Damned|TLAD]] are not available in the main game), and finally, coding additional weapons takes up development time &amp; storage space. For example, in the assault rifle class, the [[AK-47]] and the [[AR-15|M4]] do the job. We don't need additional assault rifles such as the [[wp:Heckler & Koch G36|HK G36]], [[wp:SA80|SA80]], [[wp:Steyr AUG|AUG]], [[wp:IMI Tavor TAR-21|TAR-21]], and so on.
::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Rebutting the original gripe of the limited number of weapons, you don't need multiple weapons for a single weapons class. First off, having too many choices can overwhelm or confuse players, second, having several different weapons with similar technical specifications (weight, effective range, etc.) creates redundancy, third, having additional weapons in a single class creates balancing issues (This is why the weapons introduced in [[The Lost and Damned|TLAD]] are not available in the main game), and finally, coding additional weapons takes up development time & storage space. For example, in the assault rifle class, the [[AK-47]] and the [[AR-15|M4]] do the job. We don't need additional assault rifles such as the [[wp:Heckler & Koch G36|HK G36]], [[wp:SA80|SA80]], [[wp:Steyr AUG|AUG]], [[wp:IMI Tavor TAR-21|TAR-21]], and so on.
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[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]After you are done gunning down 10 criminals, he proceeds to the next objective and does'nt reload his weapon automatically.
[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]After you are done gunning down 10 criminals, he proceeds to the next objective and does'nt reload his weapon automatically.
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:::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Melee weapons in GTA IV were meant for discreet kills. The last thing a hitman wants is unwanted attention (aka [[Liberty City Police Department|LCPD]]). In the GTA III era, using a chainsaw out in the open attracts cops.
:::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Melee weapons in GTA IV were meant for discreet kills. The last thing a hitman wants is unwanted attention (aka [[Liberty City Police Department|LCPD]]). In the GTA III era, using a chainsaw out in the open attracts cops.
::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]ok fine if u want to talk about discreet kills then there should be a katana it is like a knife on steriods and i dont think any one could hear a slash of a katana.
::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]ok fine if u want to talk about discreet kills then there should be a katana it is like a knife on steriods and i dont think any one could hear a slash of a katana.
:::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]A katana is a Japanese weapon. [[Niko Bellic|Niko]] is Serbian, [[Johnny Klebitz|Johnny]] is a Jew and a biker, and [[Luis Fernando Lopez|Luis]] is Dominican. None of those groups would use a katana. Also, a katana is expensive &amp; hard to come by &amp; takes years of training to properly wield, whereas a baseball bat can be acquired at any store which sells sporting goods for a low price &amp; any two-bit thug can swing a bat. Besides, the GTA III era was meant to be over-the-top where as the GTA IV era outside of [[Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars|Chinatown Wars]] was meant to be realistic. If R* wanted to appropriately add a katana in the GTA IV era, then they would center a DLC episode or a stand-alone game around the [[Yakuza]].
:::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]A katana is a Japanese weapon. [[Niko Bellic|Niko]] is Serbian, [[Johnny Klebitz|Johnny]] is a Jew and a biker, and [[Luis Fernando Lopez|Luis]] is Dominican. None of those groups would use a katana. Also, a katana is expensive & hard to come by & takes years of training to properly wield, whereas a baseball bat can be acquired at any store which sells sporting goods for a low price & any two-bit thug can swing a bat. Besides, the GTA III era was meant to be over-the-top where as the GTA IV era outside of [[Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars|Chinatown Wars]] was meant to be realistic. If R* wanted to appropriately add a katana in the GTA IV era, then they would center a DLC episode or a stand-alone game around the [[Yakuza]].
::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]This is Grand Theft Auto we are talking about. is supposed to be over the top mass murder killing sprees and drunken driveby shootings. the more different weapons I have regardless of class will make it more fun and make the fun last longer and will keeping me coming back longer because i have more different ways i can kill massive amounts of people
::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]This is Grand Theft Auto we are talking about. is supposed to be over the top mass murder killing sprees and drunken driveby shootings. the more different weapons I have regardless of class will make it more fun and make the fun last longer and will keeping me coming back longer because i have more different ways i can kill massive amounts of people
:::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]"More Weapons, More Fun" is just an opinion.
:::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]"More Weapons, More Fun" is just an opinion.
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[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Whatever happened to mercenaries and gang members? In GTA: SA you could recruit random people off the street and hand them a 9mm.
[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Whatever happened to mercenaries and gang members? In GTA: SA you could recruit random people off the street and hand them a 9mm.
:[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]This is not a weapons gripe; this is more of a [[GTA IV Gripes/Gameplay|gameplay gripe]].
:[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]This is not a weapons gripe; this is more of a [[GTA IV Gripes/Gameplay|gameplay gripe]].
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:{{Gripe}} The biggest drawback of this game is probably the ranging system of the weapons. All guns except the sniper rifles have zero effect on enemies after a certain range, as if the bullet magically disappears in mid-air. It's very awkward and unrealistic having to walk closer and closer to your enemy for your gun to start doing damage, especially in multiplayer. (if it wasn't for this, GTA4 would be the perfect multiplayer game IMO) There should be a more realistic ranging system for the guns, like having guns do a lesser amount of damage the farther away you are, or maybe even bullet drop. of course this should be proportional to the gun you were using, 9mm would have a shorter effective range, M4 a longer range, etc. IMO&nbsp;this is the one glaring flaw of GTA4's combat system.
[[Category:GTA IV Gripes]]
[[Category:GTA IV Gripes]]
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