User talk:Ewoud

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Removed Images

Hi, could you please discuss before you start removing images from this wiki. You wouldn't like it if we went over and deleting stuff from WikiGTA just because we thought we had a legitimate claim to it. User:Lantyz from WikiGTA managed to talk to us without having to go round deleting things, so I must ask that you do the same. We will seek permission for any copyrighted images if directly requested. However, referring to our Copyrights policy: "some content, such as logos, screenshots, names or short text extracts (eg quotes) may be placed if used fairly" and from a discussion: "We believe it is fair to use screenshots of games to represent those games and the characters, vehicles and locations in those games" "Even if we did remove them, all we would do is go into the game and take the same screenshots... that is a pointless exercise." - Xenon (?) 16:49, 8 May 2007 (BST)

I am inclined to agree with Xenon on this point. I believe diplomacy is the best way or option to at least produce a meaningful results... which is exactly what discussion is for. I am a firm believer in compromise and diplomacy as a solution to any disputes unless those two options are throughly exhausted here. This is not the case where either options has been exhausted. As my boss ;) stated above, User: Lantyz already had talked to us (although I was not here until slightly after that event.. so I was not the party to the discussion that went on) without deleting first. That is the finest example of diplomacy. Deleting them without discussion is akin to "Shoot first, ask later" thing without having a reasonable and probable cause to do so which is not a good thing, frankly.
To prevent such future confusion, I recommend that all images have their page linking to the discussion in question, which is the discussion between User:Lantyz and us.
On final, but somewhat unrelated, note, I apologize for my government/legal talk. Under no circumstance am I a legal representative for Grand Theft Wiki (Corporation? Kidding, of course, but we can always dreams. :P). ;) --Legion 17:17, 8 May 2007 (BST)
Thanks for the support. Grand Theft Wiki is not a democracy, but diplomacy is the key to making things run smoothly. If there is a problem, let us know and we can do something about it. If anybody just goes round "shooting", they will find themselves banned very quickly. We also don't need to have ALL images leading to that discussion, although certainly if there are any specific images that WikiGTA want removed we can discuss those and link the images to that discussion (I'll make a copyright-disputed template). That is the Copyright holder, as in WikiGTA itself or whoever uploaded the images - not just a random vigilante member from WikiGTA. Following on the point of legal representation, although I have full and final say in anything that happens here, I run this community through discussion and the aforementioned diplomacy. We discuss things and come to an agreement (although I can of course veto anything), and this discussion is how we expect other members to conduct themselves. Xenon (?) 18:06, 8 May 2007 (BST)
Hail Caesar Xenon! Such a benevolent dictator, are you? :P --Legion 18:15, 8 May 2007 (BST)
"We believe it is fair to use screenshots of games to represent those games and the characters, vehicles and locations in those games" "Even if we did remove them, all we would do is go into the game and take the same screenshots... that is a pointless exercise."
Did you ever think about the crew of what it take to make all of the screenshots. They spend hours and hours in this project and suddenly there is a (member of this) site that copy the images to is hard drive. Remove the copywrite logo with a simple text in a white box and uploading it to use it.
That isn't fair and a kind of lazy to. If you want to have nice screenshots for your site why can you not make them by yourself. You don't steel it then and it is your own work what you put into the wiki.
Ofcoarse is it not my intention to remove al of the copyrighted images of this site with out a discussion but i wanted to make a clear point about this.
I think it is a good idee now that we discuss futher here in the orginal discussion. What i will do is to leave a message in the staff area of WiKiGTA to continue the negotiations about the copyrights.
--Ewoud 19:25, 8 May 2007 (BST)
I agree entirely with your point - yes if someone has put a large amount of work into something, you won't want other people just taking it. I also don't agree with putting boxing over the copyrights, which is why I have not reverted your edits. However, if someone has gone and taking lots of screenshots, I think it would be fair for another site to use them (with their permission) if they were credited. I see no point in making someone else do exactly the same work you have already done to achieve the same goal. These sites (certainly this one) are all about sharing information, so why not the images to illustrate that information? I can't go and find the source of every single image on the wiki, and it would be totally impractical to suggest anybody could do that.
However, if the creator of a specific image has a problem with us using it, then we will discuss whether we can continue to use it, or whether the creator would like to be credited in the text or use a watermark on the image. If the creator leaves no room for negotiation, the image will be removed or replaced - probably by an almost-identical watermark-free image taken by somebody else. If someone official from WikiGTA would like to discuss our Copyright policy with me, just let me know - Xenon (?) 19:50, 8 May 2007 (BST)

Yeah, we got permission from Lantyz to use the images, so i don't see why you intend to take them down anyways, yes, you're site worked there asses off, if i had GTA for the PC i would have made the pics myself, rather than stealing them from another site, if i get San Andreas for the PC, i'll make the pics myself so WikiGTA will stop complaining. George 21:35, 8 May 2007 (BST)

I think you misunderstood me, George, as I never gave you permission to use our images. Even if I wanted to, I can't , because all editors on WikiGTA agree on giving permission to use uploaded content solely to WikiGTA. You can call that 'bitching', but all we ask you is to use your own work. As you say, we have worked hard on those images, and we don't like it when others use them for their own benefit. If you really don't want to, or aren't able to, make your own screenshots, may I suggest using screens of Wikipedia, like you did on the San Fierro-article?
Beside this, I want to apologize for the deletion of the images earlier. That's not how problems should be solved. --Lantyz - WikiGTA crew 14:50, 9 May 2007 (BST)
Heh, I guess misunderstanding arises between native and non-native English speakers. Oh, well, it happens. I'm afraid I can't help with Images Department (:P). Let's just say graphics isn't one of my specialties. ;) --Legion 16:26, 9 May 2007 (BST)