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   {{:GTA IV Gripes/Header}}
+----
+{{Gripe}} Okay, a couple gripes from GTA TBOGT:1) Why didnt R* put in the golf culb as a weapon? They put in the pool cue for TLAD so why not do the same here?
+) The AA-12 is semi-auto and has massive recoil? I used it before and the recoil is kinda light. R* did put in an auto shotty in TLAD but the real gun is semi-auto.
+) The [[Gold SMG]] is given to you, I'm fine with that but why do your buddies (and some enemies)use it? I mean where can you find a gold gun other than from Yusuf?
+) The [[P90]] has a silencer but it aint silent, when you start shooting, peds start screaming.
+) Why aint there a revolver? It'll fit in with the club nightlife.
+) Theres an M249 but it does less damage compared to the M4 even though they use the same bullets.
+Okay I'm done, so rebut asap.
+----
+{{Gripe}} Not THAT big of a gripe but when Niko reloads the AK47/M4 he just pulls the charging handle the only change is when you crouch THEN niko swaps mags and does the correct reload
+:{{Rebut}} Maybe its a glitch, but yeah it does hurt the realism a bit.
+----
+{{Gripe}} How come Nico holds hand guns incorrectly? He "teacups" the handguns which does very little to reduce recoil. I was taught to shoot by a cop and was taught to hold the gun such one hand grips the front of the pistol grip and the other around the side such that both thumbs are next to each other on the left side of the weapon(I am right handed).
+:{{Rebut}} While I agree that it's strange that a war veteran would hold a gun in that way, keep in mind that GTA IV isn't a real-life simulation game.
+----
+{{Gripe}} Why didn't R* put a tazer in GTA IV, I mean it's a good way to use their RAGE engine, and its fun.
+:{{Rebut}} How do you know it's fun to use if it hasn't even appeared? If you enjoy tasering people in reality, you're a sicko weirdo.
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 {{Gripe}} Every time Niko reloads the shotgun, he just puts in 2 shells, im fine with that, then you wont have to put in 8 shells, but when Niko has only shot one shot and reloads he puts in two shells. R* Prolly did this because of its easier, but didnt they go for R*ealism?
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 :{{Rebut}} I don't see that idiot "dignifying" you with a proper answer, but I'd say the SPAS12 images are just concept art drawn by people who largely don't have a lot to do with the content of the game. The MP5 is interesting and I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the DLC, since I'd rather have a real MP5 than whatever that SMG is supposed to{{ be.
 :[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]] Thes Spas-12 is in the loading screen!
+:{{Rebut}} I think you will find the combat shotgun is partly based on the SPAS-12.
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 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Ammo limits are really, really annoying.
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 :::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Sorry then. GTA IV is more realistic. And it's fun to light people on fire? Try that in real life and you'd be killed in a minute. Ain't that easy to get a flamethrower either.
 ::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]But this isn't real life, it's a game. Therefore, I don't see how adding a flame thrower would even hurt the game seeming realistic. There are flame throwers in real life after all.
-:::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]True, but flamethrowers in real life are very bulky and unwieldy contraptions, requiring two people to use, unlike the pseudo-rifle design found in the GTA III era. These devices weigh more than 60 lbs. when fully fueled and charged, have a burn time of at most 10 seconds, and have an effective range of less than 100 feet. Also, the United States Department of Defense has not used flamethrowers in the field since Vietnam.
+:::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]True, but flamethrowers in real life are very bulky and unwieldy contraptions, requiring two people to use, unlike the pseudo-rifle design found in the GTA III era. These devices weigh more than 60 lbs. when fully fueled and charged, have a burn time of at most 10 seconds, and have an effective range of less than 100 feet. Also, the United States Department of Defense has not used flamethrowers in the field since Vietnam. el sexbomb 20:39, September 9, 2010 (UTC)here, I could make a lightweight flamethrower in a couple of minutes by filling a water pistol with petrol, getting out a match, lighting it and taping it to the underside of the muzzle.
 ::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]First point the crowd of people I want to barbeque are going to be in a quiet little park less than <u>20 feet</u> from me. On to the important part, Niko is already carrying hundreds of kilos of weight in body armor, weapons and ammunition, so weight is obviously not an issue here. why not let me have access to a .50 rifle that would throw people 10-15 meters back. a flamethrower to roast marshmellows (think of the havoc this could cause in midtown Algonquin. A katana to sever people. and many more guns guns guns.
 :::::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]First, scroll down towards the bottom of the page for the rebuttals against additional guns in the game's inventory and the inclusion of the katana. Second, you want an anti-material rifle in the game? A [[wp:Barrett M82|Barrett M82 "Light-Fifty" AM Rifle]] weighs around 30 lbs. unloaded and without its accessories, more than the loaded weight of a RPG-7 (around 20 lbs.) or a M24 Sniper Weapon System (rifle, scope, etc.--around 16 lbs.), it has a overall length of 57 inches (for a 29 in. barrel), and it has a unit replacement cost of more than $8,600. Because of its size, it is fired in the prone position, which cannot be done in game. Some states ban civilian ownership of large caliber rifles & ammo, including New York, which Liberty State is based on. The U.S. Military primarily uses the M82 for bomb disposal purposes rather than for anti-personnel use. In short, an AM rifle is too cumbersome and too expensive to serve as a practical weapon in GTA. Also, a bullet of ANY caliber cannot knock a person back ([[wp:Newton's_laws_of_motion#Newton.27s_third_law:_law_of_reciprocal_actions|see Newton's 3rd law of motion]])
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 :[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Tear gas was completely useless in the main storyline of GTASA other than to knock out some guards. And the Satchel bomb has been replaced with Packie's car bomb.
 ::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]But the satchel was so much fun. To throw it on a car and blow up a whole pack of cars. and why take one out to put another in? Why not have both? Why you ask? because its on the 360 also. had it only been on the PS3 there would have been plenty of room for so much more content.
+:{{rebut}} There are remote controlled explosives in TBOGT
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 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]RPG can only hold 8 rockets.
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 ::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]The silenced pistol would fit in completely with the game's wanted system. I don't know how many times I have shot a man out of the sight of cops, but ended up getting wanted 20 seconds after. Also, a silencer isn't that hard to come by.
 :::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]So RPGs can be obtained yet a silenced weapon cannot? VERY Realistic
+::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] The silenced pistol isn't in GTA IV most likely due to engine limitations. You can't just shove everything you want in a game, and for a game as big as GTA IV they have make some cuts so the game isn't too big and/or so the engine doesn't get messed up.
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 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Shooting ranges is no longer featured.
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 ::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Could you explain that in ''Person talk''?
 :::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]That's about as crystal-clear as it gets. Flamethrowers are not like assault rifles; you can't just insert a fresh magazine and go. You need to fill the gas tanks, charge them with the compressed air, which requires two people, and you need to be frugal with the fuel, because after ten seconds it's all used up. Plus, a fully-fueled and charged flamethrower weighs in at about 64 pounds/29.03 kilograms, so running and gunning is not a viable option. Rockstar opted for realism in GTA IV, and that's about as realistic as it gets.
+::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]have you ever heard of filling a water gun with petrol and attaching a lit match to it, you just fill up a legal container at your local petrol station, pay for it, go home and fill the flamethrower witch has the lit match on it, then we would have an easy to use flamethrower that even a kid could use.
 ::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Obviously some loser never played CoD5. The M2 Flamethrower just needed to cool down...
 :::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] This isn't CoD5!
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 :[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]First of all, the RPG is still there. Second of all, why would Niko need a dildo? Third, well, there are no tool stores to get a chainsaw.
 ::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]I said Rocket Launcher not ''RPG''. There is a difference. Second, Niko could shove a dildo down a cop's throat to slow him down and lastly Niko could buy a chainsaw online. HA!
-:::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Okay, so whats the difference between Rocket Launcher and a Rocket Propelled Grenade? Unless you're talking about the bazooka from [[GTA III]] or the Heat Seaking Rocket Launcher from [[GTA San Andreas]], I can see your difference. Second, do you even know what a dildo is supposed to be for? It's a sex toy, not a weapon to shove down a persons throat. Niko isn't a master of torture, and he's seen his share of torture of enemies or POW's. By the way, what the hell is that HA! at the end for anyway? Are you making fun of me?
+:::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Okay, so whats the difference between Rocket Launcher and a Rocket Propelled Grenade? Unless you're talking about the bazooka from [[Grand Theft Auto III|GTA III]] or the Heat Seaking Rocket Launcher from [[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas|GTA San Andreas]], I can see your difference. Second, do you even know what a dildo is supposed to be for? It's a sex toy, not a weapon to shove down a persons throat. Niko isn't a master of torture, and he's seen his share of torture of enemies or POW's. By the way, what the hell is that HA! at the end for anyway? Are you making fun of me?
-::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]The chainsaw was tremendous fun at first but it got old pretty quickly after Vice City. It's loud and bulky and, in [[GTA San Andreas]], lacks the satisfying blood effects and has somewhat worse animations. I'd rather have two well animated melee weapons (like the knife and the bat) than half a dozen of them, most of which serve the same purpose. Pool cue, shovel, golf club? I don't miss them. The flamethrower would be fun to show off the wonderful flame effects of the RAGE engine, but molotovs make a lot more sense so why not just use those? And the dildo... please, that was only included as a joke weapon in the first place, that doesn't mean it has to be a permanent fixture in the 'arsenal'.
+::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]The chainsaw was tremendous fun at first but it got old pretty quickly after Vice City. It's loud and bulky and, in [[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas|GTA San Andreas]], lacks the satisfying blood effects and has somewhat worse animations. I'd rather have two well animated melee weapons (like the knife and the bat) than half a dozen of them, most of which serve the same purpose. Pool cue, shovel, golf club? I don't miss them. The flamethrower would be fun to show off the wonderful flame effects of the RAGE engine, but molotovs make a lot more sense so why not just use those? And the dildo... please, that was only included as a joke weapon in the first place, that doesn't mean it has to be a permanent fixture in the 'arsenal'.
 :::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]I'm just going to replay to that first Rebut.Specifically the dildo thing.I DO know what a Dildo is and yes it would be a great torture weapon.Could you keep your focus with a dildo shoved inside your throat,touching your intestines?No.No you couldn't.
 ::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]It's still a joke weapon. How many criminals go out with nothing but a dildo and shove it down a cop's throat? Cops are well armed. Try shoving a dildo down a cops throat and you'd be dead in a minute.
 :::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]They have dildos in the sex shop near Sar Juction that you can pick up and throw.
+----
 ::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]] They took away the best gun and one of my my favorites. The minigun. It's kind of sad that a freakin' ex-navy guy can't use a gun that is VERY common in that line of bissness.
 :::::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] LOL WUT? Firstly, Niko was in the merchant navy, that's not exactly military. Secondly, what makes the M134 Minigun 'common' on the seas? They might mount the things on warships and I know they do in military helicopters, but explain how Niko came in close contact with either of these? He served on a freaking container ship! Plus, even with all of that aside, you do know why a handheld minigun is an extremely impractical weapon, don't you? Or have you been watching too many action movies? Even if you were strong enough to carry it (and I mean really strong), the recoil would knock your aim all over the place and you'd only be able to carry enough ammo for 10 seconds of fire and even that's stretching it. They removed it because it's ''too'' ridiculous, even for GTA.
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 ::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Especially since none of the weapons do much damage (the RPG is okay, it does'nt have enough ammo), when you are surrounded by thousands of cops
 :::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]The only reason to say none of the weapons do much damage is not knowing how to aim. The aiming system lets you get head shots incredibly easily. A single clip of the Carbine is enough to take out over two dozen enemies at long range. There isn't a lack of powerful weapons, just a lack of skill.
-::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Rebutting the original gripe of the limited number of weapons, you don't need multiple weapons for a single weapons class. First off, having too many choices can overwhelm or confuse players, second, having several different weapons with similar technical specifications (weight, effective range, etc.) creates redundancy, third, having additional weapons in a single class creates balancing issues (This is why the weapons introduced in [[The Lost and Damned|TLAD]] are not available in the main game), and finally, coding additional weapons takes up development time & storage space. For example, in the assault rifle class, the [[AK-47]] and the [[AR-15|M4]] do the job. We don't need additional assault rifles such as the [[wp:Heckler & Koch G36|HK G36]], [[wp:SA80|SA80]], [[wp:Steyr AUG|AUG]], [[wp:IMI Tavor TAR-21|TAR-21]], and so on.
+::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]Rebutting the original gripe of the limited number of weapons, you don't need multiple weapons for a single weapons class. First off, having too many choices can overwhelm or confuse players, second, having several different weapons with similar technical specifications (weight, effective range, etc.) creates redundancy, third, having additional weapons in a single class creates balancing issues (This is why the weapons introduced in [[The Lost and Damned|TLAD]] are not available in the main game), and finally, coding additional weapons takes up development time & storage space. For example, in the assault rifle class, the [[AK-47]] and the [[M16|M4]] do the job. We don't need additional assault rifles such as the [[wp:Heckler & Koch G36|HK G36]], [[wp:SA80|SA80]], [[wp:Steyr AUG|AUG]], [[wp:IMI Tavor TAR-21|TAR-21]], and so on.
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 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]After you are done gunning down 10 criminals, he proceeds to the next objective and does'nt reload his weapon automatically.
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 :::::::[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]]"More Weapons, More Fun" is just an opinion.
 ::::::::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Um, aren't opinions the ''whole entire point'' of this page?
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+----Uhh you got a terrorsit threat and a lawsuit at hand if R* made a game about murdering helpless people. Gta IV isn't just about that, it actually has a Story
 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]Throwing a grenade or molotov from cover is pointless and suicidal, contrary to the behavior of other weapons. Take cover, wield a rifle, fire, and Niko moves to shoot over cover. Toss a grenade, and he stupidly flings it directly into the crate he's hiding behind, landing it at his feet with no hope of escape. WHY!?
 :[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] Hmm... it is quite obvious that you are new to this game. Truth is some cover items have problems with that grenades and molotovs. Also you need to practice more with your throwing. The same thing happend to me when i first started playing.
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 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]] The biggest drawback of this game is probably the ranging system of the weapons. All guns except the sniper rifles have zero effect on enemies after a certain range, as if the bullet magically disappears in mid-air. It's very awkward and unrealistic having to walk closer and closer to your enemy for your gun to start doing damage, especially in multiplayer. (if it wasn't for this, GTA4 would be the perfect multiplayer game IMO) There should be a more realistic ranging system for the guns, like having guns do a lesser amount of damage the farther away you are, or maybe even bullet drop. of course this should be proportional to the gun you were using, 9mm would have a shorter effective range, M4 a longer range, etc. IMO&nbsp;this is the one glaring flaw of GTA4's combat system.
 :{{Rebut}}I've been able to use the AK, M4A1, and even the M249/"Advanced MG" at sniper rifle ranges quite easily. You just have to tap the trigger button briefly and fire one round at a time.
-[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]] It depends on what console you play on. On a computer, the game has a lot glitches if it meets the demands for the
+::[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]I agree that the range of the guns are unrealistically short. Try aiming at a certain point just out of range and the bullets literally disappear and do no effect whatsoever. As you take one more step closer(or aim closer), you will see the bullet impact. Rockstar should have increased the range and made the ineffectiveness more gradual.
-minimum configuration. Then the bullets disappear in mid-air. Even on the medium configuration the ranging system
-sucks.
+----
 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]], Hey, this is just a minor issue. Do you notice that luis/niko/johnny run out of ammo? I shot up a hospital the other night and hid behind a pillar. These 3 cops started shooting in my direction.And they kept shooting..Because I was in cover, and none of them were running at me, I decided to make myself a sandwich. However, when I came back, they were STILL shooting..Why is it that I run out of ammo, but the police don't? And Don't give me the excuse "well, they're police officers, they have a lot of fire arms". I've seen cops in real life, and they usually only carry 2 magazines for their guns. I just think it'd be epic if the cop ran out of ammo the same time I did, forcing us to engage in fist fight. I just don't find it realistic..Also, I notice that the police don't reload their weapons. I'm hiding behind a pillar from a cop with a pump shotgun, and he just keeps firing on and on and on. It never stops.
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 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]  Not true, ever play MGS3? If you destroy the enemy weapon depot, they run out fairly quick. As this was a ps2 game, it would've been easy to code this.
 [[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]] I think the officers should run out of Ammo, If i kill one and everytime they only have 5-17 rounds then it would be interesting for them to close in and attack with a nightstick.
+----
+[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]] five gripes for you first In multiplayer  it  takes    two  headshots to  kill  a  single  person even if they  are  wearing armor it should still be an instant kill. secondly  why  can't  you  use  the  enviroment as  a  weapon  like smashing  someones  head off the  walll  or  using  the  hotplate  in    burger shot  to    cook  there  faces.  Thirdly  why  cabn't  you  pick up a  something  like  a  bin  and  smash it over there  head.  fourth  you  can't  slit  or  stab  someone from  behind    like in  SA  for    stealthy  kill.
+:[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] Well the first, it would be harder for the other player to win who your headshoting and would have an unfair advantage, and the others, USELESSS, San Andreas had the sleath kill for ONE mission.
+[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]  It may be useless to you  but  I think it  would be a fun idea    and  the stealth kill would still come in handy when you want to kill someone without attracting attention from the cops or scarying  people off.
+----
+[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]] I bounced an RPG round off a (skinny) cop! (XBOX 360)
+:[[Image:Smiley Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Rebut]] Again, the RPG is equipped with a pressure sensitive tip, not the entire grenade body. So if fired at the correct angle, it will deflect off of things.
 [[Category:GTA IV Gripes]]
+----
+[[Image:Angry Face.jpg|20px|bottom|Gripe]]  It  doesn't  take much effort to make  flamethrower all you need is a can of deoderant and  a lighter and you get your own flamethrower  it be useful for getting out of tight situations when you get cornered  and  don't  want to alert the cops. Also  Niko should of been trained  in how to  make molotovs  that way you wouldn't have to buy it off of people.  Also a petrol tank or    some other form of tanks with flamable  liquid inside should of been put in the game  you could put  petrol onto people and things and use  a lighter  to set it a blaze.  It wouldn't of  think much thought to pull this off for R*.